Dead ball contact

First half, I am Trail opposite. 5 seconds left in the first half. Black takes the sideline inbound pass and drives up the court. B1 beats his primary defender, A1. A1 runs to catch up, and tries to swat the ball away from B1. A1 fouls B1 on the arm, who loses the ball. Clock stops at .9 seconds. After my whistle A1 keeps running past B1 and runs into B2 who is at the 3 point line. I cannot see B2 because I am being screened by B1. There is contact between A1 and B2 and A1 ends up on the floor. I hold my original foul call and look to my partners to see if they saw what led to the contact between A1 and B2. We don't gather, and after a few seconds I simply take the 1st foul to the table. At halftime I asked my partners and neither of them saw whether B2 set a legal screen that A1 ran into, or if B2 gave A1 a forearm (which is what A1 was claiming). Neither coach gave me any problems when I reported the foul, and we administered the bonus with B1 shooting.

Absent knowledge of how the dead-ball contact between A1 and B2 occurred, was I right to not call a technical? I felt that B1 was a secondary screener -- would this dead ball contact be Lead's call?

[OKREF]

Contact after the dead ball is ignored unless it is flagrant, or if it's on an airborne shooter.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Contact after the dead ball is ignored unless it is flagrant, or if it's on an airborne shooter.

You are missing something here...............intentional contact is not ignored either.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by johnny d

You are missing something here...............intentional contact is not ignored either.

you are missing everything. Contact after the ball is dead is either ignored, Or if need be called is a _______?

I'll let you fill in the blank. But it doesn't state the contact be either intentional or flagrant. It could be what we may normally call a common foul on, but be so egregious that the whistle has to be blown. The foul however will not be common. Usually it has to do with players just not paying any attention to the ball.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by deecee

you are missing everything. Contact after the ball is dead is either ignored, Or if need be called is a _______?

I'll let you fill in the blank. But it doesn't state the contact be either intentional or flagrant. It could be what we may normally call a common foul on, but be so egregious that the whistle has to be blown. The foul however will not be common. Usually it has to do with players just not paying any attention to the ball.

You need to actually go back and read your rule book.

Contact after the ball has become dead is ignored unless it is ruled intentional or flagrant or is committed by or on an airborne shooter.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by johnny d

You are missing something here...............intentional contact is not ignored either.

Correct, I did leave out intentional.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by deecee

you are missing everything. Contact after the ball is dead is either ignored, Or if need be called is a _______?

I'll let you fill in the blank. But it doesn't state the contact be either intentional or flagrant. It could be what we may normally call a common foul on, but be so egregious that the whistle has to be blown. The foul however will not be common. Usually it has to do with players just not paying any attention to the ball.

Yes it does

4-19-1
Contact after the ball has become dead is ignored unless it is ruled intentional or flagrant or is committed by or on an airborne shooter.

.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by AremRed

First half, I am Trail opposite. 5 seconds left in the first half. Black takes the sideline inbound pass and drives up the court. B1 beats his primary defender, A1. A1 runs to catch up, and tries to swat the ball away from B1. A1 fouls B1 on the arm, who loses the ball. Clock stops at .9 seconds. After my whistle A1 keeps running past B1 and runs into B2 who is at the 3 point line. I cannot see B2 because I am being screened by B1. There is contact between A1 and B2 and A1 ends up on the floor. I hold my original foul call and look to my partners to see if they saw what led to the contact between A1 and B2. We don't gather, and after a few seconds I simply take the 1st foul to the table. At halftime I asked my partners and neither of them saw whether B2 set a legal screen that A1 ran into, or if B2 gave A1 a forearm (which is what A1 was claiming). Neither coach gave me any problems when I reported the foul, and we administered the bonus with B1 shooting.

Absent knowledge of how the dead-ball contact between A1 and B2 occurred, was I right to not call a technical? I felt that B1 was a secondary screener -- would this dead ball contact be Lead's call?

1. Under what circumstances would you call a technical foul, or any type of foul for that matter, without definite knowledge as to what actually occurred?

2. Not sure exactly what type of situation you are describing in this play so I cannot comment with any certainty, but I would think the center would be in a better position than the lead to observe the contact you have tried to describe.

Originally Posted by johnny d

1. Under what circumstances would you call a technical foul, or any type of foul for that matter, without definite knowledge as to what actually occurred?

I felt that something needed to be called on that contact. My L and C were no help, and I seriously considered making a call even though I had no idea if the contact was intentional or simply incidental.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I felt that something needed to be called on that contact. My L and C were no help, and I seriously considered making a call even though I had no idea if the contact was intentional or simply incidental.

I wouldn't lose sleep over it. If the contact was that bad that a T or IF was warranted you have to trust that your partners would handle things.

[Scooby]

Originally Posted by johnny d

1. Under what circumstances would you call a technical foul, or any type of foul for that matter, without definite knowledge as to what actually occurred?

Without clear knowledge I do not call anything. I do not want to be guessing on a technical foul.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I felt that something needed to be called on that contact. My L and C were no help, and I seriously considered making a call even though I had no idea if the contact was intentional or simply incidental.

If you didn't see it, what are you going to call?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I felt that something needed to be called on that contact. My L and C were no help, and I seriously considered making a call even though I had no idea if the contact was intentional or simply incidental.

Why did / do you feel that something needed to be called?

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I seriously considered making a call even though I had no idea if the contact was intentional or simply incidental.

This is never a good idea. Maybe you guys missed something, perhaps even some flagrant action. Unless you have the option to review the play on a monitor, you are only compounding the problem by making stuff up and guessing. Your feelings are not what matters. Observing the play and making the correct call is. We all have regrets when we think we miss something.

My whistle had blown, so it either would have been an intentional technical, or flagrant technical. It wasn't flagrant, so it was either going to be an INT tech or nothing. I felt a call had to be made because of the amount of contact -- A1 basically got trucked by B2, but I have no idea if it was INT worthy or not. It looked like INT-level contact, but I couldn't know for sure from my angle, all I saw was the kid falling and hit the floor hard. The whole crowd exclaimed and A1 was in my face after getting up telling me how that is an INT. As I said, I only considered doing something because at the time my partners seemed like they had no idea what to do. This suspicion was confirmed when we were in the locker room and they said they had no idea.