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Wed Dec 21, 2005, 09:44am
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I have read the threads concerning dead ball fouls need to be Int, flagrant or lignored. Until it happened in my game it was more a theory than something that could occur. It occurred.
Player A makes his free-throw. As they start going the other way Player B gives a forearm push to Player A2. The ball was not at the disposal of Team B yet. I tweet . I report a foul, no one says anything. Games goes on. I am pretty sure I got this one wrong. 1. Am I correct in that this foul falls under the Int, flagrant or let it go Sitch ? 2. Assuming this foul falls under the INt, Flag, or let it go thingie I really don't like that there is no middle ground. If this occurred in a live ball Sitch i would call a foul but not an INT. So any thoughts on why it has to be called an INt or ignored ? I am looking for reasons behing this rule. 
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Wed Dec 21, 2005, 10:08am
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Quote:
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[/b][/quote]2. Assuming this foul falls under the INt, Flag, or let it go thingie I really don't like that there is no middle ground. If this occurred in a live ball Sitch i would call a foul but not an INT. So any thoughts on why it has to be called an INt or ignored ? I am looking for reasons behing this rule. [/B][/QUOTE] A "common" (I don't necessarily mean the rule book definiition here) foul is a foul that hinders normal offensive or defensive maneuvers. When the ball is dead, there aren't any maneuvers to interfere with. So, no "common" fouls. You could, and I have in similar situations, stop the ball from becomming live, and talk to the player(s) involved. A stern, "knock it off" or "just play ball" works well. It lets the player(s) know that you saw what happened and are going to keep looking for it.
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Wed Dec 21, 2005, 12:57pm
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Don't forget, if you choose to call it, it's an intentional technical foul. Make sure there's enough there to justify a T before you call it.
__________________
"To win the game is great. To play the game is greater. But to love the game is the greatest of all."
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Wed Dec 21, 2005, 01:02pm
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Overkill
Yea I now get it has to be an INT tech foul. Just thought there would be some middle ground between run of the mill push and INT TEch Foul-I will have to just get through my not liking the options.
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Wed Dec 21, 2005, 01:10pm
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Re: Overkill
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(But keep it on the down-low that I think that way, some of these guys are a little touchy about questioning the commandments ... I mean the rule book)
__________________
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but what you fail to realize is that what you heard is not really what I meant.
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Wed Dec 21, 2005, 01:11pm
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Whoa. If the scenario was after a made FT by A, but before B1 picks up the ball for the throw in, B2 sets and illegal screen against A3. You're stating this situation falls into the INT/Flagrant/Ignored enforcement?
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Wed Dec 21, 2005, 02:02pm
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Rule 10-13 section 15 article 1 An intentional Technical foul involves intentionally contacting an opponent in a non-flagrant manner while the ball is dead. If you determined the contact deserved a penalty (which you did, and as described I agree) your only choice is was it flagrant because the ball is dead this is your only option. As far as the question about a screen - we are trapped if we make the call - you can not have a personal foul on a dead ball.
__________________
The trouble with officials is they just don't care who wins.
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Wed Dec 21, 2005, 02:08pm
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[/B][/QUOTE]Wow, still sensitive, aren't you, junior? Hopefully you'll get over that before (or if) you ever actually get a chance to do any levels higher than frosh/soph high school or your usual middle school games. Keep telling us what to do using your vast officiating experience and knowledge though. 
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Wed Dec 21, 2005, 02:17pm
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I think part of this comes down to how you define "at the disposal". A1 makes the FT. Just cause B1 hasn't picked up the ball doesn't mean that it isn't "at the disposal" and thus, a live ball. The easy out on this is to say that in your judgment, the ball was "at the disposal", and thus LIVE, and then you CAN have a plain ole personal foul.
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Wed Dec 21, 2005, 02:39pm
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Jurassic, Haven't you died out yet? Since I like your agressiveness -I'm gonna buy your granddaughter extra butter with her popcorn. That oughta seal the deal.
__________________
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but what you fail to realize is that what you heard is not really what I meant.
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Wed Dec 21, 2005, 02:42pm
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Did someone say Popcorn?
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Wed Dec 21, 2005, 03:17pm
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Haven't you died out yet? Since I like your agressiveness -I'm gonna buy your granddaughter extra butter with her popcorn. That oughta seal the deal. [/B][/QUOTE]Maybe you'll get to officiate one of her middle school games one day too, junior. Don't give up your day job though.
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Wed Dec 21, 2005, 03:29pm
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Quote:
[/B][/QUOTE] A "common" (I don't necessarily mean the rule book definiition here) foul is a foul that hinders normal offensive or defensive maneuvers. When the ball is dead, there aren't any maneuvers to interfere with. So, no "common" fouls. You could, and I have in similar situations, stop the ball from becomming live, and talk to the player(s) involved. A stern, "knock it off" or "just play ball" works well. It lets the player(s) know that you saw what happened and are going to keep looking for it. [/B][/QUOTE] I agree. I even used it last night in the first quarter. Two guys were bumping each other with their shoulders as they were crossing half court and elbows were starting to get higher. Not real hard, but just testing each other and quite possibly trying to get a foul against a better player with the idea of that player eventually fouling out. I stopped play and told both players "that is the end of that stuff, you are better players than that." It also depends on game status, if it is late in the game, and if it is more severe, call it how you see it, but I don't suggest ignoring it.
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Thu Dec 22, 2005, 12:40am
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Don't give up your day job though. [/B][/QUOTE] Aw man ... now I'm gonna have to make her call me pappa.
__________________
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but what you fail to realize is that what you heard is not really what I meant.
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Thu Dec 22, 2005, 04:18am
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That might the the absolutely most ignorant post ever made on this forum. Fuking immature jerk.
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