Dead Ball contact

[missinglink]

Large school boys Sophomore against tiny school varsity (Team A). Good match up. Early in 1st quarter, dead ball after made basket by Team A. As teams and officials are beginning transition and before ball is at disposal of B, I (old trail, new lead (two man)) see B1 contact (call it an open hand push) A1 in throat with open hand hard enough for A1 to have to recoil. I whistled a Technical Foul on B1 for dead ball intentional contact. Coach A is yakking that contact was incidental and Coach B is immediately asking me if it was flagrant. Partner said he did not see the contact and I stuck with intentional as I did not sense malicious intent that would have been evident if the contact was a punch, blow or jab. Looking back over the play over these last two days, I think now that any intentional contact above the shoulder would have to be flagrant and thus DQ. 10.3.8 says you can have a difference between intentional and flagrant but I am not sure what that difference might be given the confines of my situation. This was my first Technical Foul, other than bench or admin. Any advice/thoughts?

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by missinglink
Large school boys Sophomore against tiny school varsity (Team A). Good match up. Early in 1st quarter, dead ball after made basket by Team A. As teams and officials are beginning transition and before ball is at disposal of B, I (old trail, new lead (two man)) see B1 contact (call it an open hand push) A1 in throat with open hand hard enough for A1 to have to recoil. I whistled a Technical Foul on B1 for dead ball intentional contact. Coach A is yakking that contact was incidental and Coach B is immediately asking me if it was flagrant. Partner said he did not see the contact and I stuck with intentional as I did not sense malicious intent that would have been evident if the contact was a punch, blow or jab. Looking back over the play over these last two days, I think now that any intentional contact above the shoulder would have to be flagrant and thus DQ. 10.3.8 says you can have a difference between intentional and flagrant but I am not sure what that difference might be given the confines of my situation. This was my first Technical Foul, other than bench or admin. Any advice/thoughts?

'02-'03 Rules Book 4.19.4

He would be gone in my book!

[zebraman]

That's why they are paying you millions to be an official - for your judgement. It's up to you to decide if it's flagrant or not.

From the way you describe it, it sounds like you could have had flagrant or "just" intentional. Good call.

Z

[RecRef]

Originally posted by missinglink
. As teams and officials are beginning transition and before ball is at disposal of B, I (old trail, new lead (two man)) see B1 contact (call it an open hand push) A1 in throat with open hand hard enough for A1 to have to recoil. Any advice/thoughts?

Ok, I was not there to see it. That said may I open hand you in the throat hard enough so that your head recoils? It is quite possible to force the Adam’s Apple back in such a situation. This is a pure case of flagrant intimidation/battery in my eyes. Who cares what coach B thinks.

[rainmaker]

If you thought B1 aimed for the throat, I'd call that flagrant. If he had his hand out, and A1 kind of moved in, and B1 was just there, so to speak, then I think you can get away with the intentional. In fact, it seems to me that's what the intentional call is for -- rough play with excessive contact, that isn't fighting. Probably a good call.

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by rainmaker
If you thought B1 aimed for the throat, I'd call that flagrant. If he had his hand out, and A1 kind of moved in, and B1 was just there, so to speak, then I think you can get away with the intentional. In fact, it seems to me that's what the intentional call is for -- rough play with excessive contact, that isn't fighting. Probably a good call.

For you too Z!

A1 retaliates by punching B1 in the mouth. What ya got now?

4.18.2

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by missinglink
Coach A is yakking that contact was incidental and Coach B is immediately asking me if it was flagrant.

Why is Coach A upset about a T on B1?

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by thumpferee

For you too Z!

A1 retaliates by punching B1 in the mouth. What ya got now?

4.18.2

Ya got both players disqualified for fighting.

But, if B1 had taunted and A1 did not retaliate with a punch...then you might just have a T on B1.
Just like missinglink had just an intentional on B1, with no retaliation by A1.
Could be either like Z said.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Why is Coach A upset about a T on B1?

I was reading this that he got it backward.