Backcourt?

[Adam]

The rule does not say anything about who caused it to go into the BC.

The rule says "last to touch before" and "first to touch after". Both "before" and "after" refer to the ball going into the back court. One event cannot be both before and after the same separate event.

I will not be calling this a violation.

[Adam]

Consider this situation for those who think this should be called a violation.

A1 has the ball in the BC and throws a pass towards A2 in the FC. B1 jumps from a FC position and interrupts the pass, but is only able to tap it back towards the BC where A1 catches it.

I have to ask those of you who consider the OP a violation, are you calling this one a violation too?

[SNIPERBBB]

Thats the same thing if A1 FC just throws it to BC A2. Tough luck but still BC.

You can probably get away with not calling it until someone calls you on the carpet for it.

[Adam]

One more, for kicks.

A1 dribbling, standing on the division line.

B1 guarding.

B1 reaches down and slaps the ball (dribble over, 3 points no longer applies) and knocks it a) into A1's leg or b) up in the air towards the BC and A2 catches it before it bounces, standing in the BC.

Violations?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Thats the same thing if A1 FC just throws it to BC A2. Tough luck but still BC.

Not even close to the same thing.

[OKREF]

For the opening play, I don't think I would call this a violation. The last to touch the ball was team B. I don't think this is a ball in flight is it?

Had a play similar last night. A2 is in front court, B2, tips the ball, and the ball deflects off the foot of A2 then bounces one time in the back court, where A2 picks up the ball. Called a back court.

[refiator]

I posted this not because I have seen it, but it is an interesting case play.
Let's layer this play and break it down:

What is the status of the ball when A-1 passes? Answer: frontcourt

What is the status of the ball when B-1 deflects the ball? Answer: frontcourt

What is the status of the ball when the deflected ball bounces in the frontcourt? Answer: frontcourt

The ball does not have backcourt status until when? Answer: The ball must either touch the floor in the backcourt or be touched by a player or ref with backcourt status or touch the backboard in the backcourt.

When does the ball have backcourt status? Answer: When it was touched by A3.

If the ball doesn't have backcourt status until it is touched by A3, then A3 caused the backcourt status.

If A3 allowed the ball to first touch the floor before catching the ball, then it would be B1 that caused the ball to have backcourt status. Then it would be legal for A3 to touch the ball in the backcourt because A3 did not cause the ball to have backcourt status.

Essentially A3 caused the ball to have backcourt status. Therefore it is a backcourt violation on A3.

If A3 had been standing out of bounds then we would deem that A3 caused the ball to go out of bounds and not B1.

So, if we layer this play and look at the status of the ball and who caused the status of the ball then we must rule this play as a backcourt violation.

However, I agree also that I doubt anyone would give a no-call a second thought.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by refiator

So, if we layer this play and look at the status of the ball and who caused the status of the ball then we must rule this play as a backcourt violation.

The violation is not for causing the ball to gain backcourt status. That's not what 9-9 says.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by refiator

I posted this not because I have seen it, but it is an interesting case play.
Let's layer this play and break it down:

What is the status of the ball when A-1 passes? Answer: frontcourt

What is the status of the ball when B-1 deflects the ball? Answer: frontcourt

What is the status of the ball when the deflected ball bounces in the frontcourt? Answer: frontcourt

The ball does not have backcourt status until when? Answer: The ball must either touch the floor in the backcourt or be touched by a player or ref with backcourt status or touch the backboard in the backcourt.

When does the ball have backcourt status? Answer: When it was touched by A3.

If the ball doesn't have backcourt status until it is touched by A3, then A3 caused the backcourt status.

If A3 allowed the ball to first touch the floor before catching the ball, then it would be B1 that caused the ball to have backcourt status. Then it would be legal for A3 to touch the ball in the backcourt because A3 did not cause the ball to have backcourt status.

Essentially A3 caused the ball to have backcourt status. Therefore it is a backcourt violation on A3.

If A3 had been standing out of bounds then we would deem that A3 caused the ball to go out of bounds and not B1.

So, if we layer this play and look at the status of the ball and who caused the status of the ball then we must rule this play as a backcourt violation.

However, I agree also that I doubt anyone would give a no-call a second thought.

So what? Causing the ball to have BC status isn't a violation. Otherwise, in a case where A1 throw the ball to the BC it would be a violation the moment it hit the floor without anyone touching it.

Read the rule again. It only a violation if A is both the team that last touched it BEFORE it has BC status and the team that first touches AFTER is has BC status. When A touches the ball in the backcourt, giving it backcourt status, they will still be touching it after the initial contact thus they are the first to touch. However, to see if it is a violation, you must back up in time to see who was the last one to touch it before they touched it.

From a prior year book:

RULE 9 SECTION 9 BACKCOURT
ART. 1 . . . A player shall not be the first to touch a ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by refiator

If the ball doesn't have backcourt status until it is touched by A3, then A3 caused the backcourt status.

If "causing" was a violation, then it would be a violation if A1 passed the ball into the BC as soon as the ball hit the floor.

It's not, so it isn't.