T or Intentional?

[jeremy341a]

VB 3 man crew. H1 shots the ball and makes it. During the rebounding actions H2 and V1 get there arms tangled up. I am the C. I hear the new trail tell them "let go." V1 drops his arms and H2 two hand shoves V1. I gave H2 a technical as the ball was rolling on the floor under the basket. This is correct I believe as the ball was dead still.

Confession: I did not take into account the status of the ball when I seen it. I just instinctively called the T. Then I started thinking it should have been intentional as it was during play. However thinking back I am almost certain V had not picked up the ball yet and I know for a fact T had not started a count as he was watching the rebounders. Long story short, I think I got lucky.

[Raymond]

And when you checked the rulebook, was your luck confirmed?

[bob jenkins]

It sounds like it was both intentional and T.

(those aren't exclusive terms.)

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And when you checked the rulebook, was your luck confirmed?

Pretty much.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

VB 3 man crew. H1 shots

I would have given H1 a technical for shooting the ball.

[Toren]

Did your new trail have a whistle? Sounds like he had this whole play the whole way.

[HokiePaul]

Some of the responses thus far have been sarcastic/vague ...

Can someone confirm that the correct call in this situation is a Technical Foul (because the ball was was dead after a made basket but before it was at the thrower's disposal).

On a side note, I find the "what did the rule book say" type responses very unhelpful. I don't always have my rule book with me 24x7 to look things up.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Some of the responses thus far have been sarcastic/vague ...

Can someone confirm that the correct call in this situation is a Technical Foul (because the ball was was dead after a made basket but before it was at the thrower's disposal).

On a side note, I find the "what did the rule book say" type responses very unhelpful. I don't always have my rule book with me 24x7 to look things up.

The question comes down to when the ball becomes dead, and when it comes live again. The OP had it correct (perhaps by luck).

The ball becomes dead when the ball goes through the basket, and it becomes live again when the new T starts his 5 second count.

And for the record, Bob's answer was neither vague nor sarcastic. It also had the bonus property of adding more information.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Adam

And for the record, Bob's answer was neither vague nor sarcastic. It also had the bonus property of adding more information.

Thank you ... and I was not necessarily refering to Bob in this case. This time it was BadNewRef (but honestly it's something that I notice with lots of posts and was not intended to be pointed at any one person)

[bob jenkins]

Didn't I answer this a few mintues ago? Maybe I forgot to hit "post".

In any event, it's an Intentional Technical foul.

It's not an Intentional Personal foul.

And, there's always a tension between "teaching a man to fish" and "giving a man a fish."

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Some of the responses thus far have been sarcastic/vague ...

Can someone confirm that the correct call in this situation is a Technical Foul (because the ball was was dead after a made basket but before it was at the thrower's disposal).

On a side note, I find the "what did the rule book say" type responses very unhelpful. I don't always have my rule book with me 24x7 to look things up.

jeremy already answered the question. And since this happened in his game, he had time to look it up at some point afterwards. I don't see why I need to give the rulebook reference if I know he is going to look it up. I already know the correct answer, but I might not have assess to the rulebook at that moment either, so how am I going to give a reference?

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And when you checked the rulebook, was your luck confirmed?

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Pretty much.

[stir22]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

VB 3 man crew. H1 shots the ball and makes it. During the rebounding actions H2 and V1 get there arms tangled up. I am the C. I hear the new trail tell them "let go." V1 drops his arms and H2 two hand shoves V1. I gave H2 a technical as the ball was rolling on the floor under the basket. This is correct I believe as the ball was dead still.

Confession: I did not take into account the status of the ball when I seen it. I just instinctively called the T. Then I started thinking it should have been intentional as it was during play. However thinking back I am almost certain V had not picked up the ball yet and I know for a fact T had not started a count as he was watching the rebounders. Long story short, I think I got lucky.

Had a play similar to this during a game two weeks ago. I was new lead, and had the call. I went up with a closed fist, but didn't indicate anything else. Went to my partner, who also saw the play...after conferring, we went with intentional.

To the OP, (and the board) the play, as described by the OP, is that the kind of play that you could go with a closed fist, then get with your partners? Or do you feel that a call needs to be made right away?

[bob jenkins]

You can definitely get together. Some would say it's preferable (depending on the situation).

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by stir22

Had a play similar to this during a game two weeks ago. I was new lead, and had the call. I went up with a closed fist, but didn't indicate anything else. Went to my partner, who also saw the play...after conferring, we went with intentional.
...

My partners had this play last week. I was the Trail and not involved in the play. Lead went up closed fist with the intent of going FF1, but conferred with the C first, then came out with the crossed arms. He then came to me to make sure I knew what was going on. Great communication on his part from beginning to end.

[ballgame99]

So if the shot from the OP would have missed and stayed in play and the action played out the same the correct call would have been an intentional foul, with a determination needing to be made of whether the contact was flagrant (player ejection)? But really, whether you call technical or intentional its just semantics because the penalty is the same in this case? Both count towards team fouls, both result in two shots plus ball. Am I missing something?