You Decide (Clip)

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Don't forget the "in the path" component I learned recently. I don't see the defender in the path until a second or two before contact, and then she is not directly facing the dribbler. The defender is sidestepping the whole way. Additionally, I think I see a bit of forward contact right as the defender stops, which would negate any LGP if she did have it. Offensive player is under control the whole way, block.



Both times you freeze it I don't see the B1 in A1's path at all.

AremRed:

Where in the Rules is this "in the path" of which you speak. I have peruesed the Rules Books from 1971 hence and cannot find it.

MTD, Sr.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

AremRed:

Where in the Rules is this "in the path" of which you speak. I have peruesed the Rules Books from 1971 hence and cannot find it.

MTD, Sr.

MTD...the very act of guarding requires the defender to be in the path

NCAA (Men and Women)

Rule 4

Section 17. Guarding
Art. 1. Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent. The guarding position shall be initially established and then maintained inbounds on the playing court.

NFHS:

Rule 4-23
Art. 1 Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent. There is no minimum distance required between the guard and opponent, but the maximum is 6 feet when closely guarded. Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without *illegally contacting an opponent. A player who extends an arm, shoulder, hip or leg into the path of an opponent is not considered to have a legal position if contact occurs.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by APG

MTD...the very act of guarding requires the defender to be in the path

NCAA (Men and Women)

Rule 4

Section 17. Guarding
Art. 1. Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent. The guarding position shall be initially established and then maintained inbounds on the playing court.

NFHS:

Rule 4-23
Art. 1 Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent. There is no minimum distance required between the guard and opponent, but the maximum is 6 feet when closely guarded. Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without *illegally contacting an opponent. A player who extends an arm, shoulder, hip or leg into the path of an opponent is not considered to have a legal position if contact occurs.

APG:

Point taken. But I have never liked that phrase in the rules because of what I said in my recent post (Post #91) in this thread. Furthermore when defenders trap a ball handler, at least one of the defenders may not be in the path of the defender even though he/she has obtained/established a LGP; besides what path has a stationary offensive player established?

It is always been my position that a defender either has a LGP or he does not with regard to a particular offensive player.

I would rather see "the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent" phrase be changed (or delete it completely) to "legally obtaining an unoccupied spot on the playing court" because guarding really comes down to one of five things: 1) denying an opponent a spot on the court; 2) denying an opponent the ball; 3) keeping an opponent from shooting; 4) denying an opponent from passing the ball; or denying an opponent from dribbling.

And NCAA R4-17 and NFHS R4-S23 do a good job in describing what a defender can and cannot do with regard to an offensive player that is moving.

MTD, Sr.

[SWKS]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

APG:

Point taken. But I have never liked that phrase in the rules because of what I said in my recent post (Post #91) in this thread. Furthermore when defenders trap a ball handler, at least one of the defenders may not be in the path of the defender even though he/she has obtained/established a LGP; besides what path has a stationary offensive player established?

It is always been my position that a defender either has a LGP or he does not with regard to a particular offensive player.

I would rather see "the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent" phrase be changed (or delete it completely) to "legally obtaining an unoccupied spot on the playing court" because guarding really comes down to one of five things: 1) denying an opponent a spot on the court; 2) denying an opponent the ball; 3) keeping an opponent from shooting; 4) denying an opponent from passing the ball; or denying an opponent from dribbling.

And NCAA R4-17 and NFHS R4-S23 do a good job in describing what a defender can and cannot do with regard to an offensive player that is moving.

MTD, Sr.

MTD and APG

Isn't in the path generally vague for a reason? The object of the offensive team to is to score within their halfcourt after crossing the division line. There are not time restraints in NFHS so we don't have to examine that, BUT...the path is where the offensive player is intending to go in relation to the basket. When the player is 25 ft. away from the basket they have a large vector they could go and therefore the PATH of the player is wide and the defensive player would need to be in that vector. As the offensive player gets closer to the basket in an attempt to shot, the vector is smaller and the responsibility of the defender increases to get in the correct path. The sidelines and other players change the width of that vector.

But in the play that we are examining in this thread. It is a one on one type situation and the vector path for the offensive player is wide and the defensive player has a right to a wide PATH also.

Another of my 2 cents

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by SWKS

MTD and APG

Isn't in the path generally vague for a reason? The object of the offensive team to is to score within their halfcourt after crossing the division line. There are not time restraints in NFHS so we don't have to examine that, BUT...the path is where the offensive player is intending to go in relation to the basket. When the player is 25 ft. away from the basket they have a large vector they could go and therefore the PATH of the player is wide and the defensive player would need to be in that vector. As the offensive player gets closer to the basket in an attempt to shot, the vector is smaller and the responsibility of the defender increases to get in the correct path. The sidelines and other players change the width of that vector.

Says who?
Help me here, because I'm not seeing where this relates to the path of the offensive player and I don't see rulebook support for this.

[HawkeyeCubP]

I don't think anyone would bat an eye at a block call on this - or this type of play. But I also actually think an argument could be made that the defender did technically actually establish LGP a few steps before the contact.

I'm personally banging this a block. (And I'm also fortunate enough to not be working a two-person game to give the negatively-affected coach any more ammunition about us possibly being out of position for the call.)