You Decide (Clip)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Don't forget the "in the path" component I learned recently. I don't see the defender in the path until a second or two before contact, and then she is not directly facing the dribbler. The defender is sidestepping the whole way. Additionally, I think I see a bit of forward contact right as the defender stops, which would negate any LGP if she did have it. Offensive player is under control the whole way, block.



Both times you freeze it I don't see the B1 in A1's path at all.

I interpret "in the path" rather loosely, I guess. The defender is easily between the dribbler and the basket. Would you really expect her to expose the basket to get into the precise path of the dribbler who is avoiding the defender at the moment?

[Rufus]

Block, all day long.

[SWKS]

Originally Posted by AremRed

then she is not directly facing the dribbler.

Where does it say in 4-23 that you have to be directly facing the dribbler? It states that the torso must be facing to establish LGP but is not required to stay there.

Just some food for thought!!

[Raymond]

I can understand the official in the game getting it wrong, we all have.

But how in the hell can anybody watch this clip in 3 different speeds and still say this is a PC foul?

[SWKS]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I can understand the official in the game getting it wrong, we all have.

But how in the hell can anybody watch this clip in 3 different speeds and still say this is a PC foul?

Because by definition it is a PC and not a block again another reference (4-7) and tell my how the "heck" someone can watch it three times and not call it a PC

ART. 2

Charging is illegal personal contact caused by pushing or moving into an opponent's torso.

a. A player who is moving with the ball is required to stop or change direction to avoid contact if a defensive player has obtained a legal guarding position in his/her path.

b. If a guard has obtained a legal guarding position, the player with the ball must get his/her head and shoulders past the torso of the defensive player. If contact occurs on the torso of the defensive player, the dribbler is responsible for the contact.

c. There must be reasonable space between two defensive players or a defensive player and a boundary line to allow the dribbler to continue in his/her path. If there is less than 3 feet of space, the dribbler has the greater responsibility for the contact.

d. The player with the ball may not push the torso of the guard to gain an advantage to pass, shoot or dribble.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Don't forget the "in the path" component I learned recently. I don't see the defender in the path until a second or two before contact, and then she is not directly facing the dribbler. The defender is sidestepping the whole way. Additionally, I think I see a bit of forward contact right as the defender stops, which would negate any LGP if she did have it. Offensive player is under control the whole way, block.



Both times you freeze it I don't see the B1 in A1's path at all.

AremRed:

Where in the Rules is this "in the path" of which you speak. I have peruesed the Rules Books from 1971 hence and cannot find it.

MTD, Sr.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

AremRed:

Where in the Rules is this "in the path" of which you speak. I have peruesed the Rules Books from 1971 hence and cannot find it.

MTD, Sr.

MTD...the very act of guarding requires the defender to be in the path

NCAA (Men and Women)

Rule 4

Section 17. Guarding
Art. 1. Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent. The guarding position shall be initially established and then maintained inbounds on the playing court.

NFHS:

Rule 4-23
Art. 1 Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent. There is no minimum distance required between the guard and opponent, but the maximum is 6 feet when closely guarded. Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without *illegally contacting an opponent. A player who extends an arm, shoulder, hip or leg into the path of an opponent is not considered to have a legal position if contact occurs.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by APG

MTD...the very act of guarding requires the defender to be in the path

NCAA (Men and Women)

Rule 4

Section 17. Guarding
Art. 1. Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent. The guarding position shall be initially established and then maintained inbounds on the playing court.

NFHS:

Rule 4-23
Art. 1 Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent. There is no minimum distance required between the guard and opponent, but the maximum is 6 feet when closely guarded. Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without *illegally contacting an opponent. A player who extends an arm, shoulder, hip or leg into the path of an opponent is not considered to have a legal position if contact occurs.

APG:

Point taken. But I have never liked that phrase in the rules because of what I said in my recent post (Post #91) in this thread. Furthermore when defenders trap a ball handler, at least one of the defenders may not be in the path of the defender even though he/she has obtained/established a LGP; besides what path has a stationary offensive player established?

It is always been my position that a defender either has a LGP or he does not with regard to a particular offensive player.

I would rather see "the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent" phrase be changed (or delete it completely) to "legally obtaining an unoccupied spot on the playing court" because guarding really comes down to one of five things: 1) denying an opponent a spot on the court; 2) denying an opponent the ball; 3) keeping an opponent from shooting; 4) denying an opponent from passing the ball; or denying an opponent from dribbling.

And NCAA R4-17 and NFHS R4-S23 do a good job in describing what a defender can and cannot do with regard to an offensive player that is moving.

MTD, Sr.