Intentional

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Coach was not right. If fouling at the end of game to stop the clock and force the other team to shoot free throws so they can get the ball back is an intentional foul then I guess every official I have ever seen officiate this situation has called it wrong.

Grabbing a jersey to force that scenario is just about always an intentional foul around here. And we do call it that way.

Originally Posted by Smitty

Grabbing a jersey to force that scenario is just about always an intentional foul around here. And we do call it that way.

I understand. In my situation I was L tableside. A1 had the ball right in front of T. B1 tried to slap the ball away from A1 but misses and fouls A1. T does not call it as he is straight lined. A1 is just standing in place holding the ball. B1 tries another tactic and pulls A1's jersey, maybe about 2-3 inches. B1 then looks at T until he sees it and calls it. The coach screamed intentional but no way I am calling an INT after my partner missed the first foul and based on the tiny amount of shirt-holding going on.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I understand. In my situation I was L tableside. A1 had the ball right in front of T. B1 tried to slap the ball away from A1 but misses and fouls A1. T does not call it as he is straight lined. A1 is just standing in place holding the ball. B1 tries another tactic and pulls A1's jersey, maybe about 2-3 inches. B1 then looks at T until he sees it and calls it. The coach screamed intentional but no way I am calling an INT after my partner missed the first foul and based on the tiny amount of shirt-holding going on.

Sorry, but if you saw the first foul, you should have just called that first foul. End of game, I have no problem with a partner coming in to get this.

If neither of you saw the first foul, the only real option here is the INT.

B1 should have continued to play defense. There are lots of better options than grabbing the jersey, and most of them come with a remote chance of a steal.

Edited to add: This is how I would do it; if your area wants you to avoid intentional fouls like the plague, do it that way.

Originally Posted by Adam

If neither of you saw the first foul, the only real option here is the INT.

That depends on your definition of "legitimate attempt to play the ball/player". I'd rather not become a pioneer in calling INT's that are actually ants/minnows/misdemeanors.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by AremRed

That depends on your definition of "legitimate attempt to play the ball/player". I'd rather not become a pioneer in calling INT's that are actually ants/minnows/misdemeanors.

Sure there can be some disagreement on this, but pulling the jersey is not ever a legitimate attempt to play defense.

As far as being a pioneer, maybe you can be the first person in your area to realize the game situation, understand what the defense is likely to do, and then get the original foul so you don't find yourself in the compromising position of ignoring an obvious intentional foul.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Adam

Sorry, but if you saw the first foul, you should have just called that first foul. End of game, I have no problem with a partner coming in to get this.

If neither of you saw the first foul, the only real option here is the INT.

B1 should have continued to play defense. There are lots of better options than grabbing the jersey, and most of them come with a remote chance of a steal.

I agree.