The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 05, 2013, 11:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 121
FT Simultaneous Violation

Team A shooting 2 shots. When the ball is bounced to the FT shooter lane space 1 and 2 simultaneously switch spots before the shot is taken. Whistle is immediately blown to identify the violation. What happens next?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 05, 2013, 11:27pm
Show up, keep up, shut up
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,527
Quote:
Originally Posted by onetime1 View Post
Team A shooting 2 shots. When the ball is bounced to the FT shooter lane space 1 and 2 simultaneously switch spots before the shot is taken. Whistle is immediately blown to identify the violation. What happens next?
Do you mean members of the opposite team were line up incorrectly and then switched to their correct spots? If yes I am killing the shot and re-administering. I should have made sure they were lined up correctly before I bounced the ball to the shooter.

If a double violation on the free-throw itself, cancel the throw and award an AP throw-in.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 06, 2013, 12:12am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Do you mean members of the opposite team were line up incorrectly and then switched to their correct spots? If yes I am killing the shot and re-administering. I should have made sure they were lined up correctly before I bounced the ball to the shooter.

If a double violation on the free-throw itself, cancel the throw and award an AP throw-in.
....unless....
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 06, 2013, 12:38am
beware big brother
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: illinois
Posts: 963
Unless it is the 5th Thursday of November and there is a full moon, in which case you eject both players, tell both coaches they are jag bags, and resume the game with a rugby style scrum.

It could also be that team A is entitled to more free throws, in which case it might be prudent to allow them to shoot those.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 06, 2013, 12:41am
Show up, keep up, shut up
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
....unless....
The title of the thread specifies "simultaneous violation". What I wrote is the procedure for a simultaneous violation. (NFHS 9-1-4)

Do you mean unless there are more shots? How often does a simultaneous violation happen on a free throw before the last one??

Last edited by AremRed; Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 12:45am.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 06, 2013, 12:47am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
The title of the thread specifies "simultaneous violation". What I wrote is the procedure for a simultaneous violation. (NFHS 9-1-4)

Do you mean unless there are more shots? How often does a simultaneous violation happen on a free throw before the last one??
The OP isn't clear, but I read it to mean the simultaneous violation occurs on the first of two free throws.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.

Last edited by Adam; Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 12:48am. Reason: added the edit
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 06, 2013, 12:57am
beware big brother
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: illinois
Posts: 963
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
The title of the thread specifies "simultaneous violation". What I wrote is the procedure for a simultaneous violation. (NFHS 9-1-4)

Do you mean unless there are more shots? How often does a simultaneous violation happen on a free throw before the last one??
I would venture to guess that in the situation described in the OP, where the teams are lined up in the wrong lane spaces and then try to switch, happens almost exclusively on the first free throw no matter if it is for a 1 and 1, two shot foul, or three shot foul.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 06, 2013, 12:58am
Show up, keep up, shut up
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
The OP isn't clear, but I read it to mean the simultaneous violation occurs on the first of two free throws.
Sorry 'bout the edit, caught your meaning late. Yeah on any throw but the last give him the rest of the shots. Doesn't happen as often as on the last shot though.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 06, 2013, 07:39am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: PG County, MD
Posts: 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Do you mean members of the opposite team were line up incorrectly and then switched to their correct spots? If yes I am killing the shot and re-administering. I should have made sure they were lined up correctly before I bounced the ball to the shooter.

If a double violation on the free-throw itself, cancel the throw and award an AP throw-in.
By rule, simultaneous violation.

Casplay

9.1.2 SITUATION B:

A1 is shooting the first of a bonus free-throw situation. A4 and A5 are positioned in the first two marked lane spaces (near the end line) and B4 and B5 are positioned in the second two marked lane spaces. The incorrect alignment is discovered by the officials (a) before the ball is at the disposal of A1; (b) after the ball is at A1's disposal, but before the try is in flight; (c) when the try is in flight; (d) when the successful try goes through the cylinder; (e) when the unsuccessful try is rebounding off the basket ring; or (f) when the rebound of the unsuccessful try is securely in A4's possession.

RULING: In (a), the administering official shall "reset" the free throw and put the players in their proper marked lane spaces. In (b) and (c) an official shall sound his/her whistle immediately and call a simultaneous violation, utilizing the alternating-possession procedure to put the ball in play. In (d), (e) and (f) the free throw has ended and the improper alignment is ignored. (4-20-3; 9-1-2 Penalty 3)
__________________
You learn something new everyday ...
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 06, 2013, 08:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,123
Thank you for posting that. Yes, it's the "official's fault." But, just like starting play with 6 players, you still enforce the rule.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 06, 2013, 08:54am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Sorry 'bout the edit, caught your meaning late. Yeah on any throw but the last give him the rest of the shots. Doesn't happen as often as on the last shot though.
The odds of players lining up in the wrong block are practically nil for the 2nd free throw b/c any errors would have been caught on the first free throw, including players switching positions.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 06, 2013, 10:27am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 197
Just for awareness sake, late in a close game, it's not an unheard-of ploy for the team not at the line that has the AP arrow to intentionally coerce a double violation. A quick tug on the opponent's shirt plus a "we're in the wrong spot" or "switch me" can be a big play if your not ready for it.

A personal foul for the shirt grab, or an unsportsman-like T will take care of it, but if the offenders are discreet enough, it's tough to be certain it's a willful act.

Last edited by Jesse James; Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 10:35am.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 06, 2013, 11:25am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
If I think it's intentional deception, I'm going with the T. If I think it's innocently wrong, I'm just going with the defensive violation. I can't see calling a foul, as the shirt tug here wouldn't meet the definition of a foul.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 06, 2013, 11:28am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse James View Post
Just for awareness sake, late in a close game, it's not an unheard-of ploy for the team not at the line that has the AP arrow to intentionally coerce a double violation. A quick tug on the opponent's shirt plus a "we're in the wrong spot" or "switch me" can be a big play if your not ready for it.

A personal foul for the shirt grab, or an unsportsman-like T will take care of it, but if the offenders are discreet enough, it's tough to be certain it's a willful act.


This was a "trick" taught by many coaches a number of years ago.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 06, 2013, 02:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
If I think it's intentional deception, I'm going with the T. If I think it's innocently wrong, I'm just going with the defensive violation. I can't see calling a foul, as the shirt tug here wouldn't meet the definition of a foul.
You could call only a violation on the player pulling the trick by considering it in the vein of a fake....they did something to trick the other player into violating.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Simultaneous Free Throw Violation jayhop Basketball 15 Fri Dec 07, 2012 09:10am
Simultaneous Violation gracealone919 Basketball 2 Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:36am
Simultaneous Violation and Foul grunewar Basketball 6 Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:54pm
Simultaneous Shot Clock Violation/Held Ball SCalScoreKeeper Basketball 17 Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:58am
Simultaneous Lane Violation? mplagrow Basketball 3 Mon Feb 03, 2003 10:01pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:23am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1