FT Simultaneous Violation

[onetime1]

Team A shooting 2 shots. When the ball is bounced to the FT shooter lane space 1 and 2 simultaneously switch spots before the shot is taken. Whistle is immediately blown to identify the violation. What happens next?

Originally Posted by onetime1

Team A shooting 2 shots. When the ball is bounced to the FT shooter lane space 1 and 2 simultaneously switch spots before the shot is taken. Whistle is immediately blown to identify the violation. What happens next?

Do you mean members of the opposite team were line up incorrectly and then switched to their correct spots? If yes I am killing the shot and re-administering. I should have made sure they were lined up correctly before I bounced the ball to the shooter.

If a double violation on the free-throw itself, cancel the throw and award an AP throw-in.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Do you mean members of the opposite team were line up incorrectly and then switched to their correct spots? If yes I am killing the shot and re-administering. I should have made sure they were lined up correctly before I bounced the ball to the shooter.

If a double violation on the free-throw itself, cancel the throw and award an AP throw-in.

....unless....

[johnny d]

Unless it is the 5th Thursday of November and there is a full moon, in which case you eject both players, tell both coaches they are jag bags, and resume the game with a rugby style scrum.

It could also be that team A is entitled to more free throws, in which case it might be prudent to allow them to shoot those.

Originally Posted by Adam

....unless....

The title of the thread specifies "simultaneous violation". What I wrote is the procedure for a simultaneous violation. (NFHS 9-1-4)

Do you mean unless there are more shots? How often does a simultaneous violation happen on a free throw before the last one??

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AremRed

The title of the thread specifies "simultaneous violation". What I wrote is the procedure for a simultaneous violation. (NFHS 9-1-4)

Do you mean unless there are more shots? How often does a simultaneous violation happen on a free throw before the last one??

The OP isn't clear, but I read it to mean the simultaneous violation occurs on the first of two free throws.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by AremRed

The title of the thread specifies "simultaneous violation". What I wrote is the procedure for a simultaneous violation. (NFHS 9-1-4)

Do you mean unless there are more shots? How often does a simultaneous violation happen on a free throw before the last one??

I would venture to guess that in the situation described in the OP, where the teams are lined up in the wrong lane spaces and then try to switch, happens almost exclusively on the first free throw no matter if it is for a 1 and 1, two shot foul, or three shot foul.

Originally Posted by Adam

The OP isn't clear, but I read it to mean the simultaneous violation occurs on the first of two free throws.

Sorry 'bout the edit, caught your meaning late. Yeah on any throw but the last give him the rest of the shots. Doesn't happen as often as on the last shot though.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Do you mean members of the opposite team were line up incorrectly and then switched to their correct spots? If yes I am killing the shot and re-administering. I should have made sure they were lined up correctly before I bounced the ball to the shooter.

If a double violation on the free-throw itself, cancel the throw and award an AP throw-in.

By rule, simultaneous violation.

Casplay

9.1.2 SITUATION B:

A1 is shooting the first of a bonus free-throw situation. A4 and A5 are positioned in the first two marked lane spaces (near the end line) and B4 and B5 are positioned in the second two marked lane spaces. The incorrect alignment is discovered by the officials (a) before the ball is at the disposal of A1; (b) after the ball is at A1's disposal, but before the try is in flight; (c) when the try is in flight; (d) when the successful try goes through the cylinder; (e) when the unsuccessful try is rebounding off the basket ring; or (f) when the rebound of the unsuccessful try is securely in A4's possession.

RULING: In (a), the administering official shall "reset" the free throw and put the players in their proper marked lane spaces. In (b) and (c) an official shall sound his/her whistle immediately and call a simultaneous violation, utilizing the alternating-possession procedure to put the ball in play. In (d), (e) and (f) the free throw has ended and the improper alignment is ignored. (4-20-3; 9-1-2 Penalty 3)

[bob jenkins]

Thank you for posting that. Yes, it's the "official's fault." But, just like starting play with 6 players, you still enforce the rule.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Sorry 'bout the edit, caught your meaning late. Yeah on any throw but the last give him the rest of the shots. Doesn't happen as often as on the last shot though.

The odds of players lining up in the wrong block are practically nil for the 2nd free throw b/c any errors would have been caught on the first free throw, including players switching positions.

[Jesse James]

Just for awareness sake, late in a close game, it's not an unheard-of ploy for the team not at the line that has the AP arrow to intentionally coerce a double violation. A quick tug on the opponent's shirt plus a "we're in the wrong spot" or "switch me" can be a big play if your not ready for it.

A personal foul for the shirt grab, or an unsportsman-like T will take care of it, but if the offenders are discreet enough, it's tough to be certain it's a willful act.

[Adam]

If I think it's intentional deception, I'm going with the T. If I think it's innocently wrong, I'm just going with the defensive violation. I can't see calling a foul, as the shirt tug here wouldn't meet the definition of a foul.

[JMUplayer]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

Just for awareness sake, late in a close game, it's not an unheard-of ploy for the team not at the line that has the AP arrow to intentionally coerce a double violation. A quick tug on the opponent's shirt plus a "we're in the wrong spot" or "switch me" can be a big play if your not ready for it.

A personal foul for the shirt grab, or an unsportsman-like T will take care of it, but if the offenders are discreet enough, it's tough to be certain it's a willful act.

This was a "trick" taught by many coaches a number of years ago.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

If I think it's intentional deception, I'm going with the T. If I think it's innocently wrong, I'm just going with the defensive violation. I can't see calling a foul, as the shirt tug here wouldn't meet the definition of a foul.

You could call only a violation on the player pulling the trick by considering it in the vein of a fake....they did something to trick the other player into violating.