Simultaneous Violation and Foul

[grunewar]

B8th grade game. Pretty good game. Late in 3rd qtr, A1 inbounding the ball on sideline in backcourt. B1 applying pressure. B1 is jumping up and down and loses his balance and is way over the line now reaching through the plane very noticeably and I blow my whistle for Team B warning for violation of the boundary plane. At the EXACT SAME TIME my partner TWEETS! My partner has a foul on A3 for pushing off B3 trying to get open to receive the inbound pass.

Where do we go from here? I have violation B and he has a foul A - neither "came first."

Thanks.

[Scrapper1]

You have to decide which one came first. This can't be a "double" situation. If the plane violation happened first, the foul didn't happen (unless it was intentional or flagrant). If the foul happened first, then the violation didn't happen.

It's exactly the same as if you called a travel and you're partner called a pushing foul at the same time. You must decide which one happened first.

In your case, I would assess the delay warning.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by grunewar

B8th grade game. Pretty good game. Late in 3rd qtr, A1 inbounding the ball on sideline in backcourt. B1 applying pressure. B1 is jumping up and down and loses his balance and is way over the line now reaching through the plane very noticeably and I blow my whistle for Team B warning for violation of the boundary plane. At the EXACT SAME TIME my partner TWEETS! My partner has a foul on A3 for pushing off B3 trying to get open to receive the inbound pass.

Where do we go from here? I have violation B and he has a foul A - neither "came first."

Thanks.

I would get together with my P and one (could be the CC, R, or person who recognizes that only 1 event can be penalized) official has to start the discussion.

I would ask my partner how long before your whistle did the actual infraction occur? I would contrast that how long before my whistle my infraction occured.

Penalize the infraction that happened first: that is, the infraction that occured the earliest - the one furthest from the time it was whistled (simultaneously with the other infraction).

Alternatively, perhaps the one official peripherally saw A3 push B3 and could say for certain that the B1 violation was before/after the A3 push. Or vice versa.

Get together, decide, and go with it. When reporting, be clear that the first illegal action was "(fill in the blank)".

My opinion is not to automatically penalize the foul because it is "more severe" than a defensive throw-in violation.

[Nevadaref]

You have no choice here. You and your partner MUST decide that one act came first. That one makes the ball dead and the other is ignored.

That's actually written somewhere from the NFHS, but I can't recall where at the moment. (Sheesh, I'm turning into BillyMac! )

There is no provision in the rules for enforcing penalties for a violation and a foul which occur simultaneously.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You have no choice here. You and your partner MUST decide that one act came first. That one makes the ball dead and the other is ignored.

That's actually written somewhere from the NFHS, but I can't recall where at the moment. (Sheesh, I'm turning into BillyMac! )

There is no provision in the rules for enforcing penalties for a violation and a foul which occur simultaneously.

Nevadaref,
Here you go....correct as usual ....
CONCURRENT JURISDICTION
2.6 SITUATION A: The umpire observes traveling, stepping out of bounds or another violation by A1. At approximately the same time, A1 tries for a field goal or the referee observes contact by B1 on A1. RULING: The officials must decide definitely which act occurred first. There is no rules coverage to administer the acts as occurring simultaneously. If the violation occurred first, the ball became dead. If the ball was in flight during the try before the touching of the boundary, there was no violation. If the contact occurred after a violation was observed, it is not a foul unless the contact is intentional or flagrant.

[grunewar]

My partner was the R so we went with his foul call.

Thanks for the citation. I confess when I looked in the Case Book I was searching in the wrong chapters - Rule 7. Out of Bounds and Throw-in and 9. Violations and Penalties.

Lesson learned - look harder next time! Thanks.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Sheesh, I'm turning into BillyMac!

You mean to say that you can't find your keys either?