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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 06:00pm
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Dayton-Gonzaga Block/Charge plays (video x3)

I thought there were some interesting plays while I was watching this one in the middle of the night at work. Here are three of them.

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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 07:46pm
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In my opinion,

Block
Play on
PC
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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 07:46pm
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Travel, nothing, charge.
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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 11:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
In my opinion,

Block
Play on
PC
Agreed.

In 2, if you do call the block, count the basket.

In 3 the official seems to point at the arc as the reason, but the defender wasn't in it.
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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 11:19pm
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I don't think he was in the arc either. The official definitely points to the arc as the reason for the block. It is pretty close though. It looks as though the defenders left heel is off the ground and pretty close to being over the line. I would not be able to catch that, but if it is above the line for the arc, he is in the arc.
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Old Wed Nov 27, 2013, 11:33pm
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Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
I don't think he was in the arc either. The official definitely points to the arc as the reason for the block. It is pretty close though. It looks as though the defenders left heel is off the ground and pretty close to being over the line. I would not be able to catch that, but if it is above the line for the arc, he is in the arc.
His initial guarding position is pretty clearly outside the arc (as I recall -- I didn't go back and look). You are allowed to backup into the arc and take a charge. I wonder why C or T didn't come in with information?
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Old Thu Nov 28, 2013, 12:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra View Post
Travel, nothing, charge.
Travel on play #1? So you're saying the contact was incidental?
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Old Thu Nov 28, 2013, 12:45am
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Just wondering...apart from the arc aspect on Play #3, are those of you lobbying for a PC doing so with the new NCAAM rule in mind?
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Old Thu Nov 28, 2013, 01:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
Just wondering...apart from the arc aspect on Play #3, are those of you lobbying for a PC doing so with the new NCAAM rule in mind?
Don't know it, don't do them, but I am sure that someone who does know the rule is going to point out that this is a block under that code. In any game I'm officiating this is a PC.
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Old Thu Nov 28, 2013, 01:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra View Post
Travel, nothing, charge.
Looks like the foul caused the travel, if there is even a travel to be called.
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Old Thu Nov 28, 2013, 01:22am
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NFHS:

Play 1: Charge
Play 2: No call
Play 3: Can't tell from this angle, not a block due to RA though.

Note on play 3: The defender established LGP outside the arc, but when the defenders foot came down it looks like it clipped the line. That's probably what the lead saw.

Question on play 1: if there is a travel, isn't this Trails call to make? I don't see how the Lead could have located the pivot foot while refereeing the defense.

Last edited by AremRed; Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 01:28am.
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Old Thu Nov 28, 2013, 02:00am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
Travel on play #1? So you're saying the contact was incidental?
Both players were in the wrong. B could be called for a block but A dipped his shoulder and could have gotten the PC too. It is as 50/50 as it gets. Since the shoulder dip was the most obvious part of the play I'd lean toward a PC but the contact was not worthy of a foul when a travel was there.
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Old Thu Nov 28, 2013, 02:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Note on play 3: The defender established LGP outside the arc, but when the defenders foot came down it looks like it clipped the line. That's probably what the lead saw.
As was mentioned earlier, the rule is a player can't establish LGP in the RA. If B1 establishes outside then backs up and maintains LGP, B1 can still draw a charge.


Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra View Post
Both players were in the wrong. B could be called for a block but A dipped his shoulder and could have gotten the PC too. It is as 50/50 as it gets. Since the shoulder dip was the most obvious part of the play I'd lean toward a PC but the contact was not worthy of a foul when a travel was there.
Um...okay. But what happened first?
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"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example."
"If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..."
"Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4."
"The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge)

Last edited by JetMetFan; Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 03:38am.
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Old Thu Nov 28, 2013, 03:00am
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All 3 incorrectly called.

#1. Defender never had two feet on the floor in the path and facing the opponent, therefore he never had LGP. Not having LGP, he would not be permitted to be moving at the time of contact. Therefore, it is a block.

#2. Weak call. If there was a call, the defender was in the path with 2 feet on the floor and facing the opponent. The shooter was not in the upward motion (the official would have awarded two shots if so) so the defender had LGP. The defender was legally moving directly away from the dribbler. A block would not be possible. Furthermore, the only contact was with the dribbler's forearm. Not sure you can even commit a block against the opponent's arm. All that said, I don't think it was a charge or PC either. Should have been a no call.

#3. Defender had LGP as the dribbler was coming around the 1st defender....so he had it in plenty of time even under the new upward movement. That was a charge. And even if he ended up in the RA, he had LGP outside of it and only moved to maintain it.
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Old Thu Nov 28, 2013, 03:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra View Post
Both players were in the wrong. B could be called for a block but A dipped his shoulder and could have gotten the PC too. It is as 50/50 as it gets. Since the shoulder dip was the most obvious part of the play I'd lean toward a PC but the contact was not worthy of a foul when a travel was there.
If the defender doesn't have LGP, why would this matter?

To me, if the defender isn't legal, it doesn't really matter how A runs into him unless he extends a limb or something to push off and I don't consider an immovable part of the torso to be a limb. Plus, most people running lean forward a bit.
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