Dayton-Gonzaga Block/Charge plays (video x3)

[OKREF]

In my opinion,

Block
Play on
PC

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by OKREF

In my opinion,

Block
Play on
PC

Agreed.

In 2, if you do call the block, count the basket.

In 3 the official seems to point at the arc as the reason, but the defender wasn't in it.

[johnny d]

I don't think he was in the arc either. The official definitely points to the arc as the reason for the block. It is pretty close though. It looks as though the defenders left heel is off the ground and pretty close to being over the line. I would not be able to catch that, but if it is above the line for the arc, he is in the arc.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I don't think he was in the arc either. The official definitely points to the arc as the reason for the block. It is pretty close though. It looks as though the defenders left heel is off the ground and pretty close to being over the line. I would not be able to catch that, but if it is above the line for the arc, he is in the arc.

His initial guarding position is pretty clearly outside the arc (as I recall -- I didn't go back and look). You are allowed to backup into the arc and take a charge. I wonder why C or T didn't come in with information?

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I wonder why C or T didn't come in with information?

Taught never to come with this information unless we are 100% certain and we have all the information. No way T had any look as to whether or not secondary defender established in arc or not. C might have had a look, but might not of as well. As far as coming with all the information, they could go to the monitor if none of them remember who the offensive player was. Although this might look as though they were checking to see if defender was in RA and a review for that isn't allowed.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by johnny d

As far as coming with all the information, they could go to the monitor if none of them remember who the offensive player was. Although this might look as though they were checking to see if defender was in RA and a review for that isn't allowed.

You still have to tell the coaches why you're going to the monitor so it's not as though you can go for one thing then come up with another.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Taught never to come with this information unless we are 100% certain and we have all the information. No way T had any look as to whether or not secondary defender established in arc or not. C might have had a look, but might not of as well. As far as coming with all the information, they could go to the monitor if none of them remember who the offensive player was. Although this might look as though they were checking to see if defender was in RA and a review for that isn't allowed.

I know the rule and the mechanic, so let me re-phrase: I wonder why (without going back and watching the play again), C or T didn't have the information. Lesson (for me): Be ready to help.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I know the rule and the mechanic, so let me re-phrase: I wonder why (without going back and watching the play again), C or T didn't have the information. Lesson (for me): Be ready to help.

There are going to be very few instances where the T is going to have a good look at where and when the secondary defender establishes his position. I don't think it is a matter of being ready or not, I think it is more a case that consistently having this info from the T means you are ignoring stuff you should be more concerned about.

In the C you can be in a better position to help on this play, but I would be willing to wager that most of the time the C does not pick up the secondary defender until the point of contact. It is more likely he is following the offensive player into the paint. Just as with the T, this isn't going to be much help since we have to know where LGP was established.

Realistically the only person who has a shot at having this info for the secondary defender is the L and that is why you don't see many of these calls changed.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

His initial guarding position is pretty clearly outside the arc (as I recall -- I didn't go back and look). You are allowed to backup into the arc and take a charge. I wonder why C or T didn't come in with information?

My take: his initial position was stationary. Just after the contact and as he falls he moves his foot back onto the line. At that point the L appears to glance down to see where he was stationary and convinces himself that's where the foot was the whole time.

[Rob1968]

Regarding the 3rd play:
In determining when the ballhandler/shooter starts the upward motion, is the emphasis more on when the ballhandler ends the dribble, or gathers the ball, or when the feet begin to elevate from a horizontal path to a vertical leap?
In previous seasons, with the block/charge moment of delineation between a call being a block or a PC charge, being when the shooter became airborne, and now being when the upward motion begins, how are you defiining that moment?