Travesty or Travel...

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I think I would call a travel earlier. The coach from team A needs to pick his spots to use this player better. In a game that is close towards the end I would have a hard time ignoring such blatant violations. As far as the other team running plays for the person that is being guarded by the player with the disability, that is on them. Nothing we can do to prevent that.

It would have been different if the team had the lead when putting in the player with a disability. Because, in that case, they would gain a big advantage by having a player allowed to break the rules like that. But, the way I see it, the team was only hurting themselves while helping the other team, so why not accommodate them?

I can see this happening during the last game of the season, and the player with a disability being a senior. The coach wants to give him/her their moment. I wouldn't want to be the guy that ruins that, would you?

[bob jenkins]

1) I agree with the "Hey, let's get coach B over here so we can all discuss this" philosophy.

2) There's a difference between "moving the pivot foot without gaining any distance" and "running back and forth like the rabbit in the shooting gallery."

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Coach A tells official, prior to the game, that he has a player that has Down's Syndrome. Coach A states that he would like the officials to relax the travel call on said player.
Coach wants special privledges for this "special" player.

"Okay, coach, I'll see what I can do. I assume you don't mean to use him in a situation where the outcome is still in doubt?"

,

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

"I hope you sleep well tonight...I can't believe it...calling travel on a Down's Syndrome kid...I hope you sleep well..."

I'll sleep just fine. What you were asking for in that situation was not reasonable. GOOD NIGHT."

Get both Coaches to agree on what they want in these SPECIAL situations.

Both coaches will never agree to this.

"Okay, Coach B, Coach A has a player who is handicapped, and he wants us not to call any violation on him, even if he is about to score the winning basket. That okay with you?"

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I'll sleep just fine. What you were asking for in that situation was not reasonable. GOOD NIGHT."





Both coaches will never agree to this.

"Okay, Coach B, Coach A has a player who is handicapped, and he wants us not to call any violation on him, even if he is about to score the winning basket. That okay with you?"

Sure, when you take the situation there then it's unreasonable, and it's silly to expect both coaches to be okay with it. But that's not what we're talking about. Anybody can take something to the extreme to "win" an argument, but how about we stick with the situation as described?

And what part of the country do you live in where empathy doesn't exist? We're talking about a kid with downs syndrome that wants to play basketball, not some war where one side is telling the other not to use real bullets.

Sucks that sportsmanship doesn't exist in some places.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Sure, when you take the situation there then it's unreasonable, and it's silly to expect both coaches to be okay with it. But that's not what we're talking about. Anybody can take something to the extreme to "win" an argument, but how about we stick with the situation as described?

And what part of the country do you live in where empathy doesn't exist? We're talking about a kid with downs syndrome that wants to play basketball, not some war where one side is telling the other not to use real bullets.

Sucks that sportsmanship doesn't exist in some places.

It doesn't have anything to do with empathy. Nobody said the kid shouldn't play basketball either. It is great that this kid and his parents want him to be included in these activities, but if his disability is such that he cannot participate at a level that is even remotely within the rules he and his parents should explore other options for him to continue to play basketball. Around here, they have Special Olympic teams for this purpose. I have volunteered to officiate their games many times and from my perspective, the kids enjoy playing games against and with kids that have similar disabilities and abilities as they themselves have.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by johnny d

It doesn't have anything to do with empathy. Nobody said the kid shouldn't play basketball either. It is great that this kid and his parents want him to be included in these activities, but if his disability is such that he cannot participate at a level that is even remotely within the rules he and his parents should explore other options for him to continue to play basketball. Around here, they have Special Olympic teams for this purpose. I have volunteered to officiate their games many times and from my perspective, the kids enjoy playing games against and with kids that have similar disabilities and abilities as they themselves have.

Unfortunately, not everybody lives in areas with other options. And you're forgetting that we're talking about KIDS. It's people with that attitude that's the problem with youth sports.

[Adam]

It's freaking middle school, b squad. This IS the 'other options' IMO. He'll probably be done after this season.

I probably would have likely responded like Dan in the game, and any guilty feelings I had would have disappeared when the coach started acting like a dick after the game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by APG

I can't see myself overlooking a player running with the ball for 8' once...much less 2 or more times.

... then don't work any Special Olympics Unified Games in your area. Officials that work these games acquire proper judgment for various situations as the game progresses. You have players of all different levels of ability, or disability, on the court at the same time. It's actually quite easy when you have coaches, players, fans, and administrators, all on the same page.

[APG]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... then don't work any Special Olympics Unified Games in your area. Officials that work these games acquire proper judgment for various situations as the game progresses. You have players of all different levels of ability, or disability, on the court at the same time. It's actually quite easy when you have coaches, players, fans, and administrators, all on the same page.

Different environment/venue than a middle school game a la the OP

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by APG

Different environment/venue than a middle school game à la the OP

Absolutely. Thus ...

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It's actually quite easy when you have coaches, players, fans, and administrators, all on the same page.

(APG: I fixed your post. I finally got to use my high school French. It's only been forty years. Madame Schieffler would be so proud.)

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Both coaches will never agree to this.

Oh yes my friend...we WILL have an agreement BEFORE the game starts.

And now that I have experience to draw from...I will even give examples of what will be tolerated.

If BOTH coaches agree to let the special player run around "like a rabbit in a shooting gallery"...that's what we will do. If the opposite coach wants to play defense that's his perogative.

Now...if Coach B says, "No way, treat him like all the other players"...I step in and earn my $$$. I manage this game.

"Coaches, here is what we are going to do...the special player is GOING to get some leeway. Now, he isn't going to be able to run around like 'a rabbit in a shooting gallery'...but, he is going to get a FEW steps. If I see a big advantage...we will adjust. Coach B, if you feel the need to take the ball away from this special needs player or score relentlesly on him...then that is your choice...do what you think is using your best sportsmanship attitude."


No surprises.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Team A had fought their way back into the game after being down by 12 points ...Around 2 minutes to go... Why ... did Coach A wait until the 4th quarter, of a tight game.

This (above) is what makes this situation so difficult. Even for me, and I've been involved with Special Olympics, as a volunteer, or with Unified Games, as a volunteer official, for over thirty years.

Early in this "regular (not Special Olympics, not Special Olympics Unified Games)" middle school game, or late in a lopsided "regular" middle school game, I've got no problem giving the kid several steps, several times, until I sound my whistle; assuming that the coaches, administrators, and my partner (and, possibly even the players, and the fans), are all on board.

[just another ref]

Regardless of what has been "agreed to", this still has potential for problems in a competitive game.

"I didn't know you were gonna let him do that much!!"

The integrity of the game itself is still our first priority. I am all for cutting a player some slack, whether for a handicap or simply lack of talent, but not at the expense of the outcome of the game.

[BryanV21]

I think a lot of officials forget that the game is about the kids.

I'm not on the court to make sure people respect the game of basketball, I'm there to make sure the kids are able to learn and have fun in a safe environment. I'd hope people respect the game at the same time, but that's more of a side effect to what I do, not the reason I do it.

I don't do what I do for the integrity of the game. I do it for those kids, because a while ago somebody did the same for me. And knowing how much fun I had, knowing how much I learned, I want to help another generation of kids feel the same way.

While I don't like having to ignore certain things, I understand that in order to do what's right sometimes I have to. So if a coach wants to say "to hell with winning", and give a child with Downs Syndrome his moment, then who am I to stand in his way?

But even if I do accept the whole "protect the integrity of the game" thing, then please explain to me how allowing that kid with Downs Syndrome to get away with traveling hurts the integrity of the game. Did fans in that game start looking down on basketball? Did they decide to switch their kids to wrestling or another winter sport?