Travesty of the game

[Forksref]

(This happened last week. One of our association crews was doing the game.) Visitors are up 70-30 late in the third quarter and pressing like crazy. The home coach tells his player on the throw-in after the last basket to throw it to the visitor pressing under the basket to give them an easy basket. This happened 3 times so quickly that the visitors scored three baskets in about 10 seconds. One of the officials hears the home coach say, "Do it again." The official T's up the home coach and as a result, the visitors stop pressing.

We discussed this at length at our officials round table and decided there were several ways to handle it. One would be to call both coaches together and tell them that there are hard feelings brewing here because of the score and the press. In this particular case it happened so fast and the official heard the coach tell his team to do it so the T was appropriate. Under the general concept of making a "mockery" or "travesty" of the game, the T was given. Now, we also discussed that the official doesn't really have the authority to tell a coach how to coach and we shouldn't tell them not to press but it could fall under the area of preventive officiating. Also, it was mentioned that it should be the responsibility of the home coach in this situation to get in the face of the other coach and tell him to knock off the press. In any case, it puts the official in a tough spot because it's not our fault that this is happening.

Any thoughts or experiences like this?

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Forksref
Under the general concept of making a "mockery" or "travesty" of the game, the T was given.

First charging a technical foul to either coach in your scenario is totally inappropriate and unjustified by the rules. That is not the correct penalty.

What the referee can do is forfeit the game.
From 5-4-1
"The referee may also forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game."

The officials do not have the authority to instruct a team or coach to stop pressing, to stop scoring, or to assess technical fouls for actions not specified in the rules.

Lastly, I believe that it would be a very poor idea to have one coach "get in the face of the other coach" about pressing with a big lead. That is going to lead to technical fouls and likely bigger problems.

If the home team coach instructs his team not to compete, then declare the game over and go home.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Dec 27th, 2005 at 01:24 AM]

[zebraman]

Tough situation, born out of frustration. I don't think I would have T'd the already frustrated home coach... T's are a tool we have to control a situation and I don't think a T on the home team helps to control anything right then. Why pour it on even more?

I think I would have just pulled both coaches together for a coach conference and see if reason can prevail.

Z

[Forksref]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

First charging a technical foul to either coach in your scenario is totally inappropriate and unjustified by the rules. That is not the correct penalty.

What the referee can do is forfeit the game.
From 5-4-1
"The referee may also forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game."

[Edited by Nevadaref on Dec 27th, 2005 at 01:24 AM]

So your first move is to forfeit the game? That's your only option? I hope you are willing to explain that to everyone in the gym when you send them home. I think a quick, "knock it off" to either or both coaches would be better for players and everyone else. From the other response it appears that there is no clear-cut way to handle this situation. I plan on using that old concept of common sense when addressing it. The cut and dried "word for word" from the book doesn't necessarily have the best interests of kids at heart. If anyone wants to attack me for letting the kids play more after we've corrected the problem, let them go ahead. I believe I have the authority to do what's best for the kids and the game. Never going ot apologize for that.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Forksref

So your first move is to forfeit the game? That's your only option? I hope you are willing to explain that to everyone in the gym when you send them home. I think a quick, "knock it off" to either or both coaches would be better for players and everyone else. From the other response it appears that there is no clear-cut way to handle this situation. I plan on using that old concept of common sense when addressing it. The cut and dried "word for word" from the book doesn't necessarily have the best interests of kids at heart. If anyone wants to attack me for letting the kids play more after we've corrected the problem, let them go ahead. I believe I have the authority to do what's best for the kids and the game. Never going ot apologize for that.

I'm not sure I follow this.

You want Nevada to explain to the fans for doing what he thinks is right...yet you'll never apologize for doing what you feel is right?

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by Forksref

So your first move is to forfeit the game? That's your only option? I hope you are willing to explain that to everyone in the gym when you send them home. I think a quick, "knock it off" to either or both coaches would be better for players and everyone else. From the other response it appears that there is no clear-cut way to handle this situation. I plan on using that old concept of common sense when addressing it. The cut and dried "word for word" from the book doesn't necessarily have the best interests of kids at heart. If anyone wants to attack me for letting the kids play more after we've corrected the problem, let them go ahead. I believe I have the authority to do what's best for the kids and the game. Never going ot apologize for that.

Forksref...not to speak for Nevada...but, I think he was just showing you what you COULD do by rule.

He was just showing you the T for travesty was not by rule...sure, you could say it was for unsportsmanlike conduct...but, IMO, I like the way Z would handle it.

[HJ25]

I would definitely say this is a situation where an official is in a tough spot... one coach is doing something that is very unsportsmanlike, and the other coach has no power to do anything about it.

If, as officials, you believe your job is to uphold sportsmanship in the game, then, of course you have to do something. I'm guessing the rules don't exactly specify the procedure for this situation - and they probably don't because it can be dealt with in several ways. By rule, you can't really penalize the offending coach (well, you can forfeit the game), but it's something I think warrants a penalty. As some stated you could pull the coaches together and try to see what would happen - and after that, if I were an official, I would contact the league about it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

First charging a technical foul to either coach in your scenario is totally inappropriate and unjustified by the rules. That is not the correct penalty.

By rule, a T can be an option. The unsportmanlike rule says something like "acts such as but not limited to..." and then lists several things. As the phrase I provided says, there are other acts that can be unsportsmanlike but have not been specified.

[Forksref]

[/B][/QUOTE]

Forksref...not to speak for Nevada...but, I think he was just showing you what you COULD do by rule.

He was just showing you the T for travesty was not by rule...sure, you could say it was for unsportsmanlike conduct...but, IMO, I like the way Z would handle it.

[/B][/QUOTE]

I agree with Z, I'd handle it like that. Nevada just offered no alternative. There is no easy way and the forfeit is the least beneficial to the kids.

[Rick82358]

Bad situation all around and probably should be reported to league officials for their consideration.
1) you could forfeit the game under the travesty rule. I would use that as a last resort only.

2) you could "T" the coach for unsportsmanlike behavior Second last resort

3) you could casually mention to the coach that in the interest of sportsmanship/fairplay etc. it would be nice if they removed the press.
First resort

4) You can make a team take off a press in situations like this within the rules. After mentioning to the caoch that they might want to remove the press in the interest of sportsmanship...
Call every foul the pressing team commits.
Usually the coach gets the message.

[IUgrad92]

You may not have the authority to instruct a team or coach to stop pressing, to stop scoring, or to assess technical fouls for actions not specified in the rules.

BUT, you definitely have the ability to make the point to the visiting coach that he will no longer be getting the benefit of the doubt until he calls off the dogs.

[stmaryrams]

Originally posted by Rick82358
[After mentioning to the caoch that they might want to remove the press in the interest of sportsmanship...
Call every foul the pressing team commits.
Usually the coach gets the message. [/B]

Rick - That's the party I belong to, if you are up by that much and your player puts a hand on the other team - I will call the foul.

As a coach there are many things you can have your team work on in one of these game situations. Maybe just run some half court offense with a specific number of passes. Games like these are no fun for either team IMO.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by stmaryrams

Rick - That's the party I belong to, if you are up by that much and your player puts a hand on the other team - I will call the foul.

[/B]

And vice-versa too? Will you call it the same way against the non-pressing team also? Or are you just gonna call it tight against the pressing team?

Just wondering.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

And vice-versa too? Will you call it the same way against the non-pressing team also? Or are you just gonna call it tight against the pressing team?

Just wondering. [/B]

Chances are the non-pressing team is not getting close enough to foul.

[Rick82358]

Honestly - it is called looser against the team trailing in this situation.

But as was said they most likely aren't even capable of committing fouls a game where they trail by fourty points.

But in a situation like this is usually only takes a couple of fouls to get the message across.