Politics of Basketball

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Cream wasn't rising to the top around here. In these parts, the cream would go to camps and better themselves and get ridiculed by veterans for "trying to be college officials." The HS officiating situation is a joke where I live, that's why I travel up the road to work public school games.

What difference does it make if the best officials work the so-called top games. You get paid the same whether you have the top game of the night or the bottom game. Just go out and do the best you can and not worry about the other stuff. Besides, it seems to me that your interest lies in officiating college basketball, so in the end, you will either be doing HS games to fill in your non-college nights or you will stop doing them all together. Eventually this type of nonsense about how or who gets assigned to what games will no longer have any significance for you.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnny d

What difference does it make if the best officials work the so-called top games. You get paid the same whether you have the top game of the night or the bottom game. Just go out and do the best you can and not worry about the other stuff. Besides, it seems to me that your interest lies in officiating college basketball, so in the end, you will either be doing HS games to fill in your non-college nights or you will stop doing them all together. Eventually this type of nonsense about how or who gets assigned to what games will no longer have any significance for you.

Where did I mention top games or bottom games? Ever hear of holiday tournaments and post-season games? Maybe you're one of those guys who makes snide comments to officials who go to camp.

And I already work a college schedule, and I've been doing so for a few years now. I have tremendous relationships with my current HS assignors. And they both appreciate having college guys on their HS staffs. And the college guys I know who still work HS ball, do so in a professional manner.

But thanks, for assuming I'm just talking out the side of my neck with no basis for my statements.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Where did I mention top games or bottom games? Ever hear of holiday tournaments and post-season games? Maybe you're one of those guys who makes snide comments to officials who go to camp.

Again, why does it matter if you get holiday tournaments or post season games. The unprofessionalism of the assignor or local association hasn't stopped you from continuing on the path towards college basketball so their attitude towards you and others working on that path doesn't really have any significance in whether or not you achieve your goals. Worrying and or complaining about it is an exercise in futility and a complete waste of time.
My checkbook and my wife would tell you that I am a firm believer in going to camps.


And I already work a college schedule, and I've been doing so for a few years now. I have tremendous relationships with my current HS assignors. And they both appreciate having college guys on their HS staffs. And the college guys I know who still work HS ball, do so in a professional manner.

Never said people who work college ball shouldn't or don't approach their HS games with professionalism. All I said is that as you get more college games, you are going to take less HS games and have less availability to work those types of games, making the unprofessional attitude of the association even less significant to you.
But thanks, for assuming I'm just talking out the side of my neck with no basis for my statements.

Never implied you were talking without basis, I believe you when you say they aren't doing the job the right way. My only point is that their behavior is not stopping you from reaching your goals, so it isn't worth getting upset about.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Never implied you were talking without basis, I believe you when you say they aren't doing the job the right way. My only point is that their behavior is not stopping you from reaching your goals, so it isn't worth getting upset about.

Actually what is has done is stagnate the development of young officials here on the Peninsula. We don't have any new officials hungry to get better. I got into officiating at 37, I'm 49 now. I'm old. I got pick up on an NCAA roster in 2008 at 44. Since then only 2 guys from the Peninsula have been hired to NCAA-Mens staffs and both of them were in the process of moving up north the summers they were hired. A 49 year-old official shouldn't be the newest NCAA official in area with this much basketball going on year around.

You may only care about yourself, who knows. I like seeing young guys (and ladies) get better, get "big games", and get hired in college conferences. The environment of HS officiating where I live has killed officials passions for the game.

Again, why does it matter if you get holiday tournaments or post season games.

Because when those are the only games being played at the time, you are either working them or sitting at home.

My point was people get way to worked up about who is working the so-called big games.

You were the first person to bring up "so called big games". Seems to be on your mind more than anybody else's.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Actually what is has done is stagnate the development of young officials here on the Peninsula. We don't have any new officials hungry to get better. I got into officiating at 37, I'm 49 now. I'm old. I got pick up on an NCAA roster in 2008 at 44. Since then only 2 guys from the Peninsula have been hired to NCAA-Mens staffs and both of them were in the process of moving up north the summers they were hired. A 49 year-old official shouldn't be the newest NCAA official in area with this much basketball going on year around.

You may only care about yourself, who knows. I like seeing young guys (and ladies) get better, get "big games", and get hired in college conferences. The environment of HS officiating where I live has killed officials passions for the game.


Because when those are the only games being played at the time, you are either working them or sitting at home.


You were the first person to bring up "so called big games". Seems to be on your mind more than anybody else's.

I think your original post starts with the cream doesn't rise to the top around here. One implication of that statement is that qualified officials are being excluded from perceived big games. You followed up with talking about holiday tournament games and playoff games. Not sure about what goes on in PA, but where I come from those games are also perceived to be big games.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I think your original post starts with the cream doesn't rise to the top around here. One implication of that statement is that qualified officials are being excluded from perceived big games. You followed up with talking about holiday tournament games and playoff games. Not sure about what goes on in PA, but where I come from those games are also perceived to be big games.

This is my exact quote:

Cream wasn't rising to the top around here. In these parts, the cream would go to camps and better themselves and get ridiculed by veterans for "trying to be college officials." The HS officiating situation is a joke where I live, that's why I travel up the road to work public school games.

Not my fault what you perceived. You brought up "big games" all by yourself. Holidays and post-season means there are only a certain number of games being played at that particular time. You travel 250 miles to work games, but you don't care to work post-season or in-season/holiday tournaments?

You went off on a tangent. You brought up people's schedules, not me. You totally ignored the bolded part of my original statement. You brought up all the different levels of college basketball you work and say you don't do it for the money. So what exactly do you do it for, if not for "big games" and not for "money"?

BTW, I live in VA, not PA. And if I chose to work for the association now doing public school games in my local vicinity, I would be doing all the "big games" my calendar would allow, and be home less than 30 minutes from the final horn. But I choose to drive 50-80 miles to get whatever I get. So your pyschological evaluation came up short in this case.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by johnny d

What difference does it make if the best officials work the so-called top games.

It makes a helluva lot of difference to the coaches, players and fans. And if you're an official, it should make a difference to you. It reflects poorly upon the association, the assignor and the association members when officials are assigned to games who can't handle them.

You get paid the same whether you have the top game of the night or the bottom game.

That's why you work, just to get paid?

Besides, it seems to me that your interest lies in officiating college basketball, so in the end, you will either be doing HS games to fill in your non-college nights or you will stop doing them all together. Eventually this type of nonsense about how or who gets assigned to what games will no longer have any significance for you.

Wow. Unbelievable.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

It makes a helluva lot of difference to the coaches, players and fans. And if you're an official, it should make a difference to you. It reflects poorly upon the association, the assignor and the association members when officials are assigned to games who can't handle them.

If the coaches or athletic directors cared or thought they were not getting the best officials for their games they would hire a new association or assignment person for their games. Since that hasn't happened the schools must be satisfied with their work. Furthermore, it makes absolutely no difference to me if the assignment person does a poor job of putting the right officials on the right games. I don't have any input in those decisions, so I am not responsible for the outcome. My only responsibility is to work the games I am assigned and choose to accept to the best of my ability and in the most professional manner I am capable of.


That's why you work, just to get paid?


Yeah that is exactly why I work, because the money I get for doing an NAIA, D2 or D3 game 250 miles from my house makes this avocation an extremely profitable endeavor. My point was people get way to worked up about who is working the so-called big games. Is there any tangible benefit to working those games? No, there isn't. As I pointed out in my original post, the pay is the exact same and if you care about how you represent yourself, then you are going to work whatever game you are on to the best of your ability. So the only thing left is the ability to say I worked the insert big name here vs. insert big name here game. At the end of the day, bragging about what games you worked because they are considered to be important games is just about ego.

Wow. Unbelievable.

Exactly. It is unbelievable that you would be so worked up about something as insignificant as who is working the perceived big games rather than worrying about things you can control as an individual.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by johnny d

If the coaches or athletic directors cared or thought they were not getting the best officials for their games they would hire a new association or assignment person for their games. Since that hasn't happened the schools must be satisfied with their work.

Wrong again. Just because that's the way it might be in Illinois doesn't mean that's the way it is everywhere. In many areas, schools have no choice who they have assigning or working their games. The state association makes that decision.

Furthermore, it makes absolutely no difference to me if the assignment person does a poor job of putting the right officials on the right games. I don't have any input in those decisions, so I am not responsible for the outcome. My only responsibility is to work the games I am assigned and choose to accept to the best of my ability and in the most professional manner I am capable of.

Whether you have any input in those situations or not, it reflects poorly on you if you're a member of that association. Like it or not.

Yeah that is exactly why I work, because the money I get for doing an NAIA, D2 or D3 game 250 miles from my house makes this avocation an extremely profitable endeavor. My point was people get way to worked up about who is working the so-called big games. Is there any tangible benefit to working those games? No, there isn't. As I pointed out in my original post, the pay is the exact same and if you care about how you represent yourself, then you are going to work whatever game you are on to the best of your ability. So the only thing left is the ability to say I worked the insert big name here vs. insert big name here game. At the end of the day, bragging about what games you worked because they are considered to be important games is just about ego.

If that's true, they why don't you work 6th grade games every night instead of working "NAIA, D2 or D3 game 250 miles" away from your house. I smell BS.

Exactly. It is unbelievable that you would be so worked up about something as insignificant as who is working the perceived big games rather than worrying about things you can control as an individual.

No, what was unbelievable was your smart@ss remark to an official you don't even know about what you perceive as his desires. Very condescending to say the least.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

If that's true, they why don't you work 6th grade games every night instead of working "NAIA, D2 or D3 game 250 miles" away from your house. I smell BS.



No, what was unbelievable was your smart@ss remark to an official you don't even know about what you perceive as his desires. Very condescending to say the least.

And yet not nearly as smart@ssed or condescending as your remarks above or many of your other posts. It is rather amusing that you so frequently choose to utilize the same devices you find upsetting in other's posts.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by johnny d

And yet not nearly as smart@ssed or condescending as your remarks above or many of your other posts. It is rather amusing that you so frequently choose to utilize the same devices you find upsetting in other's posts.

Whatever. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of your comments. You pop off about someone else worrying about not getting the big games, yet by your own comments your more concerned with traveling 250 miles from home to work a college game that staying near home and working any available game. Sorry if that offends you.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

... more concerned with traveling 250 miles from home to work a college game that staying near home and working any available game.

It's all about trade-offs. About twenty-five years ago, I made the decision to not pursue a college schedule (mostly due to travel distances, traffic congestion, winter weather, and young children at home), and instead, decided to fill in the free nights in my high school schedule with Catholic middle school games (closer than my almost all of my high school games).

I have no way to know how I would have done working college games, but from where I'm sitting, I have no regrets. Easy travel, good middle school basketball, good money, no politics, and I've made life-long friends in my Catholic middle school association.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnny d

...Eventually this type of nonsense about how or who gets assigned to what games will no longer have any significance for you.

Hmmm, I think what and when I get assigned would have significance to me. I think that's why I have a block-out calendar. In fact, I even have one assignor who allows us to put mileage limitations for each day of the week. And guess what, I utilize that option. Hope that doesn't offend you also.

BNR and BktBallRef, I think johnny d was talking about his association and his frustrations, building on what he quoted BNR as saying. I think he was using "you" in a rhetorical sense.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

BNR and BktBallRef, I think johnny d was talking about his association and his frustrations, building on what he quoted BNR as saying. I think he was using "you" in a rhetorical sense.

Admirable of you to look on the bright side, but this would contradict that line of thinking:

..Besides, it seems to me that your interest lies in officiating college basketball, so in the end, you will either be doing HS games to fill in your non-college nights or you will stop doing them all together. Eventually this type of nonsense about how or who gets assigned to what games will no longer have any significance for you.

And since he has already worked 3 college games and 2 scrimmages, I know he shouldn't have any frustration with his local association, as they are no longer of any significance to him.