Politics of Basketball

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Cream wasn't rising to the top around here. In these parts, the cream would go to camps and better themselves and get ridiculed by veterans for "trying to be college officials." The HS officiating situation is a joke where I live, that's why I travel up the road to work public school games.

What difference does it make if the best officials work the so-called top games. You get paid the same whether you have the top game of the night or the bottom game. Just go out and do the best you can and not worry about the other stuff. Besides, it seems to me that your interest lies in officiating college basketball, so in the end, you will either be doing HS games to fill in your non-college nights or you will stop doing them all together. Eventually this type of nonsense about how or who gets assigned to what games will no longer have any significance for you.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnny d

What difference does it make if the best officials work the so-called top games. You get paid the same whether you have the top game of the night or the bottom game. Just go out and do the best you can and not worry about the other stuff. Besides, it seems to me that your interest lies in officiating college basketball, so in the end, you will either be doing HS games to fill in your non-college nights or you will stop doing them all together. Eventually this type of nonsense about how or who gets assigned to what games will no longer have any significance for you.

Where did I mention top games or bottom games? Ever hear of holiday tournaments and post-season games? Maybe you're one of those guys who makes snide comments to officials who go to camp.

And I already work a college schedule, and I've been doing so for a few years now. I have tremendous relationships with my current HS assignors. And they both appreciate having college guys on their HS staffs. And the college guys I know who still work HS ball, do so in a professional manner.

But thanks, for assuming I'm just talking out the side of my neck with no basis for my statements.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by johnny d

What difference does it make if the best officials work the so-called top games.

It makes a helluva lot of difference to the coaches, players and fans. And if you're an official, it should make a difference to you. It reflects poorly upon the association, the assignor and the association members when officials are assigned to games who can't handle them.

You get paid the same whether you have the top game of the night or the bottom game.

That's why you work, just to get paid?

Besides, it seems to me that your interest lies in officiating college basketball, so in the end, you will either be doing HS games to fill in your non-college nights or you will stop doing them all together. Eventually this type of nonsense about how or who gets assigned to what games will no longer have any significance for you.

Wow. Unbelievable.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnny d

...Eventually this type of nonsense about how or who gets assigned to what games will no longer have any significance for you.

Hmmm, I think what and when I get assigned would have significance to me. I think that's why I have a block-out calendar. In fact, I even have one assignor who allows us to put mileage limitations for each day of the week. And guess what, I utilize that option. Hope that doesn't offend you also.

BNR and BktBallRef, I think johnny d was talking about his association and his frustrations, building on what he quoted BNR as saying. I think he was using "you" in a rhetorical sense.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

BNR and BktBallRef, I think johnny d was talking about his association and his frustrations, building on what he quoted BNR as saying. I think he was using "you" in a rhetorical sense.

Admirable of you to look on the bright side, but this would contradict that line of thinking:

..Besides, it seems to me that your interest lies in officiating college basketball, so in the end, you will either be doing HS games to fill in your non-college nights or you will stop doing them all together. Eventually this type of nonsense about how or who gets assigned to what games will no longer have any significance for you.

And since he has already worked 3 college games and 2 scrimmages, I know he shouldn't have any frustration with his local association, as they are no longer of any significance to him.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Where did I mention top games or bottom games? Ever hear of holiday tournaments and post-season games? Maybe you're one of those guys who makes snide comments to officials who go to camp.

Again, why does it matter if you get holiday tournaments or post season games. The unprofessionalism of the assignor or local association hasn't stopped you from continuing on the path towards college basketball so their attitude towards you and others working on that path doesn't really have any significance in whether or not you achieve your goals. Worrying and or complaining about it is an exercise in futility and a complete waste of time.
My checkbook and my wife would tell you that I am a firm believer in going to camps.


And I already work a college schedule, and I've been doing so for a few years now. I have tremendous relationships with my current HS assignors. And they both appreciate having college guys on their HS staffs. And the college guys I know who still work HS ball, do so in a professional manner.

Never said people who work college ball shouldn't or don't approach their HS games with professionalism. All I said is that as you get more college games, you are going to take less HS games and have less availability to work those types of games, making the unprofessional attitude of the association even less significant to you.
But thanks, for assuming I'm just talking out the side of my neck with no basis for my statements.

Never implied you were talking without basis, I believe you when you say they aren't doing the job the right way. My only point is that their behavior is not stopping you from reaching your goals, so it isn't worth getting upset about.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

It makes a helluva lot of difference to the coaches, players and fans. And if you're an official, it should make a difference to you. It reflects poorly upon the association, the assignor and the association members when officials are assigned to games who can't handle them.

If the coaches or athletic directors cared or thought they were not getting the best officials for their games they would hire a new association or assignment person for their games. Since that hasn't happened the schools must be satisfied with their work. Furthermore, it makes absolutely no difference to me if the assignment person does a poor job of putting the right officials on the right games. I don't have any input in those decisions, so I am not responsible for the outcome. My only responsibility is to work the games I am assigned and choose to accept to the best of my ability and in the most professional manner I am capable of.


That's why you work, just to get paid?


Yeah that is exactly why I work, because the money I get for doing an NAIA, D2 or D3 game 250 miles from my house makes this avocation an extremely profitable endeavor. My point was people get way to worked up about who is working the so-called big games. Is there any tangible benefit to working those games? No, there isn't. As I pointed out in my original post, the pay is the exact same and if you care about how you represent yourself, then you are going to work whatever game you are on to the best of your ability. So the only thing left is the ability to say I worked the insert big name here vs. insert big name here game. At the end of the day, bragging about what games you worked because they are considered to be important games is just about ego.

Wow. Unbelievable.

Exactly. It is unbelievable that you would be so worked up about something as insignificant as who is working the perceived big games rather than worrying about things you can control as an individual.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

Recently my association held elections for officers and board members and all the candidates had one common theme: THEY WERE ANGRY

The feelings of resentment and feeling left out of the "BIG GAMES" bubbled over and were put out in the open for all to hear! I have heard private complaining and whispers over the years but nothing so public and with so much fire..words like corruption and favortism were tossed around loosely.

Your thoughts on how much these type of feelings exists in your world? Why do people get so riled up over high school basketball?

Rookie, I am curious to find out what happens throughout the next few weeks/ season with your elections, association, and if any changes happen. I think the most frustrating part for me is going to at least 2 camps every summer, studying the crap out of the rule book, case book, and official's manual, and then realize that the varsity officials are only required to attend camp once every three years, and realize that they don't know that the ball is dead after a made basket even though the clock is running and that simultaneous violations on a free throw goes to the arrow and such, yet they maintain their same varsity assignments, even though they probably haven't cracked a rule book in years. That is a really long sentence.

Our 4 main evaluators don't officiate anymore and I have a lot of respect for them, but I feel like they should be putting the varsity guys under the same scrutiny as any other official. Let the dead wood drift away and let the motivated, dedicated, respect for the game, growth officials fill in those spots. I think it is better for the game, better for the reputation of the association, and just helps improve the game all around. Then when these really motivated guys get to where they want to go, I think they would be more inclined to give back and help other nwere like minded officials to move up and improve. Just my 2 or 3 cents.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

... should be putting the varsity guys under the same scrutiny as any other official. Let the dead wood drift away and let the motivated, dedicated, respect for the game, growth officials fill in those spots. I think it is better for the game, better for the reputation of the association, and just helps improve the game all around.

Here, in my little corner of Connecticut, we have a rating system (80% peer evaluations), and a ranking system, that allows for everyone, varsity included, to move both up, and down.

As our former assignment commissioner used to say, "Being a varsity basketball official isn't the same as being the Pope, or a Supreme Court Justice".

"Be nice to people on your way up because you meet them on your way down." (Jimmy Durante)

[JRutledge]

Once again I feel so blessed that I do not have to deal with this kind of crap.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Billy brings up something I was thinking about (scary, I know). Is there a system in place where officials rate one another? We don't have one in NYC and I know I've heard the grumbling but from what I've seen on the public school side of things those who should move up seem to be moving up.

Things are different in the Catholic/Private schools. I know more than a few officials - and have heard of many others - who work NCAAM games but haven't been put on BV level in the NYC Catholic/Private schools. Many have given up those leagues as a result.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Billy brings up something I was thinking about (scary, I know). Is there a system in place where officials rate one another? We don't have one in NYC and I know I've heard the grumbling but from what I've seen on the public school side of things those who should move up seem to be moving up.

We did until this year. Certified officials (the highest classification out of 3 levels) were allowed to rate each official they worked with twice in a season. Well because of the way it was done by many trying to get an advantage, they took that ability away before this school year. Now all our ratings are based on coaches for varsity contests. There are other things considered for playoffs and an administrator with the IHSA makes all post season assignments. And they can consider other things outside of our overall Power Rating system.

Peace

[Welpe]

I posted my woes on here last season and it lead to a pretty decent discussion on the matter. Incidentally, the largest chapter in this area has gone from one of the most disorganized cluster youknowwhats to one of the better organized ones. A lot of that had to do with the voting in of new leadership and the willingness of the membership to improve it.

The politics will eat you up if you let it. I've come to grips with that in basketball...I'm still getting there with football.

Work on what you can control. Contribute what you can and work to make changes. Grand sweeping changes are rare, gradual changes in direction are much more common and feasible. You have to have patience to play the game if that's what you want to do.

Rut is also dead on. This isn't a basketball thing. I have seen similar things in other organizations not having anything to do with officiating.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Never implied you were talking without basis, I believe you when you say they aren't doing the job the right way. My only point is that their behavior is not stopping you from reaching your goals, so it isn't worth getting upset about.

Actually what is has done is stagnate the development of young officials here on the Peninsula. We don't have any new officials hungry to get better. I got into officiating at 37, I'm 49 now. I'm old. I got pick up on an NCAA roster in 2008 at 44. Since then only 2 guys from the Peninsula have been hired to NCAA-Mens staffs and both of them were in the process of moving up north the summers they were hired. A 49 year-old official shouldn't be the newest NCAA official in area with this much basketball going on year around.

You may only care about yourself, who knows. I like seeing young guys (and ladies) get better, get "big games", and get hired in college conferences. The environment of HS officiating where I live has killed officials passions for the game.

Again, why does it matter if you get holiday tournaments or post season games.

Because when those are the only games being played at the time, you are either working them or sitting at home.

My point was people get way to worked up about who is working the so-called big games.

You were the first person to bring up "so called big games". Seems to be on your mind more than anybody else's.