Deflected Throw-In Goes In

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Wrong, it seems, because the OP deals with a throw - in .
How ridiculous would it be if the ball was administered for the throw in between the lane line and the 3 point arc... would a person then assess at as being thrown from inside the arc (from OOB) therefore the defected ball would then be only 2 points? That doesn't make sense because it was not thrown "from the field". Right?

I answered a second question. Correctly.

For the OP, I previously answered that too. 2 points.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

The NFHS rule is different than the NCAA rule. Any "thrown ball from the field" beyond the 3-point arc that enters the basket is 3 points under NFHS rule. One need not judge if this is a pass or not. NCAA requires the official to judge whether it is a pass or a try.

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

3 points (NFHS). Case book 5.2.1 Situation C.

The ball was thrown from outside the arc; it was legally touched outside the arc; it entered the basket. All the elements of this counting as 3 points are met.

That is not the correct interpretation of the rule.

The more specific casebook play disagrees:

4.41.4 SITUATION B: A1’s three-point try is short and below ring level when it hits the shoulder of: (a) A2; or (b) B1 and rebounds to the backboard and through the basket. RULING: The three-point try ended when it was obviously short and below the ring. However, since a live ball went through the basket, two points are scored in both (a) and (b). (5-1)

Since we're told we don't need to judge if it is a try or not, this means that if at any point in the flight of the ball it no longer has a chance of going in without being deflected, it can no longer be a 3.

5.2.1C refers to a ball thrown to the basket that is touched such that it "continues in flight". The distinction is deflection in a new direction vs. a mere touch.

[BayStateRef]

Good point. I know when the rule was changed, the intent was to take away the judgment of whether it was a pass or a try when an "alley oop" from outside the arc went into the basket.

The case play you cite speaks of a try being "short and below the rim." I see this as a long heave (perhaps near the end of a quarter) that hits another player, but bounces into the basket.

I see your point that a hard pass that hits another player's head behind the arc and goes into the basket should be seen in the same light. But I don't agree that it "was obviously short and below the ring" at the time it hit the player. Most shots begin "obviously short and below the ring" until such time as they attain the height and distance to reach the goal.

Given the continued convoluted way the NFHS rules and case books are written and edited, I shouldn't be surprised by this. Clarity is hardly a priority for the rules writers and editors.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I am jumping into the fray some what late, but there is another way to approach theOP whether it is NFHS or NCAA Men's/Women's.

Team A has the ball for a throw-in on the sideline in its front court. A1's throw-in is touched by B1 while the ball is in the cylinder above Team A's basket. What do we have?

MTD, Sr.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

I see your point that a hard pass that hits another player's head behind the arc and goes into the basket should be seen in the same light. But I don't agree that it "was obviously short and below the ring" at the time it hit the player. Most shots begin "obviously short and below the ring" until such time as they attain the height and distance to reach the goal.

Certainly if the trajectory is such that it was going in the general vicinity of the rim, you may be left with calling it a 3 but obviously short is judging the trajectory of the ball to be not toward the basket or not strong enough that it will rise that high. 99% of all thrown balls in a basketball game are nowhere near a direction or height which might take them into the basket...those were not meant to be 3's.

The thrown ball rule was written WITHOUT considering the complication of a deflection. It was only written to cover a ball that was released in such a way that it might or might not be a try as released but goes in is to be called a 3. It was never intend to be applied to a ball that was thrown no where near a path that would go in but was batted in by someone else.

Too many people try to convolute the thrown ball case with the the case of a 3-point try that is tipped by a defender. The latter case was also written to cover a basic play, not one complicated by an unrelated issue. It is intending to describe a play where a defender, just inside the 3-point line tips the ball just as it comes out of the shooter's hands but it still goes in...that a defender can't cause a 3 to become a 2 just by touching the ball. This was written before the thrown-ball rule and was made to consider that what-if. It was never meant to apply to a case where a clear pass is batted into the basket.

Those two cases are simply apples and oranges. They were never meant to be combined to come up with a nonsensical ruling where a skip pass from one elbow to the other, in a line that would not come within 20 feet of the basket and is batted by a defender into the basket would be ruled a 3.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am jumping into the fray some what late, but there is another way to approach theOP whether it is NFHS or NCAA Men's/Women's.

Team A has the ball for a throw-in on the sideline in its front court. A1's throw-in is touched by B1 while the ball is in the cylinder above Team A's basket. What do we have?

MTD, Sr.

Players that can jump.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am jumping into the fray some what late, but there is another way to approach theOP whether it is NFHS or NCAA Men's/Women's.

Team A has the ball for a throw-in on the sideline in its front court. A1's throw-in is touched by B1 while the ball is in the cylinder above Team A's basket. What do we have?

MTD, Sr.

Basket interference.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am jumping into the fray some what late, but there is another way to approach theOP whether it is NFHS or NCAA Men's/Women's.

Team A has the ball for a throw-in on the sideline in its front court. A1's throw-in is touched by B1 while the ball is in the cylinder above Team A's basket. What do we have?

MTD, Sr.

I don't see what this play has to do with this thread. Maybe I'm just dense.

You might as well say "the deflected ball is above the height of the rim and ooks like it might enter the basket when A1 or B1 swats it away. What do you have?" (Or B1 commits a foul. OR B1 swings the elbows. ...)

Answer: Another, completely separate, interesting play.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Throw-in thrown toward throw-in team's basket deflects off a defender standing outside the three-point arc and goes through the basket. Result is two points due to the fact that the "throw" did not originate "from the field" as requisite in 5-2-1. True or False?

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

4.41.4 SITUATION B: A1’s three-point try is short and below ring level when it hits the shoulder of: (a) A2; or (b) B1 and rebounds to the backboard and through the basket. RULING: The three-point try ended when it was obviously short and below the ring. However, since a live ball went through the basket, two points are scored in both (a) and (b). (5-1)

Answer: True.

5-2: A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who
is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points. A ball
that touches the floor, a teammate inside the arc, an official, or any other goal
from the field counts two points for the team into whose basket the ball is thrown.
See 4-5-4.

[yooperbballref]

This question showed up on the MHSAA postseason exam:

A5 is making a throw-in from the frontcourt sideline. She throws the ball toward A2, who is standing in the lane. However, B3 is strongly contesting the throw-in. B3 is outside the three-point arc when she deflects the throw-in pass. After the deflection by B3, the ball enters Team A’s basket. The officials will properly rule that:

a. Team A has violated the throw-in provisions, and award Team B a throw-in.
b. Team A has scored three points.
c. Team A has scored two points.
d. Team A gets another throw-in, but no points are scored.

Origionally I had thought answer was B, but now thanks to this post I'm now going with C.

Thanks!