Deflected Throw-In Goes In

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

I agree with the 2-points rulings here, but I'd want to be careful not to mistakenly state that it's 2 because "you can score a 3-pt. basket from a throw-in," since the throw-in technically ended on the defensive deflection - even though that's essentially how we're logically getting there.

OK then...how about we say that you can't score a 3 at your opponents basket?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

OK then...how about we say that you can't score a 3 at your opponents basket?

Sure. But the OP was toward and into A's basket.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Sure. But the OP was toward and into A's basket.

It was a throw-in. Ended when touched by defender. Can't score 3 in opponents basket.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

It was a throw-in. Ended when touched by defender. Can't score 3 in opponents basket.

I think I see where you're going. But it's still a pass by A that goes into A's basket. It's not B scoring at A's basket.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

I think I see where you're going. But it's still a pass by A that goes into A's basket. It's not B scoring at A's basket.

That's just it...it is NOT a pass. That pass officially ended. It's also not a try. So can't be 3 points.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

That's just it...it is NOT a pass. That pass officially ended. It's also not a try. So can't be 3 points.

Simply being deflected by B does not change the status of this thrown ball, which still meets the definition of a pass. The throw-in, by definition and rule, has ended on the B legal touch, but it's still a pass.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I can't find a case on this, but I remember my association's interpreter giving a similar example when I went through training a couple years ago.

A1, outside the three point line attempts to throw the ball into the post. B1, also outside the 3 point line, deflects the pass and it goes into the basket. I'm 99% sure the instruction was "3 points" [FED rules]

Does the fact that the original pass was a throw in change the ruling?

The only way I would count 3 here is if the original pass was at such an angle as I couldn't tell if it had a chance to go in. If he's throwing a lob pass, then I'd be inclined to count it as three. If he's throwing a bounce pass and the initial trajectory is down (or even horizontal), I'd count it as 2.

On a throw in, I'd go 2 regardless.

Consider this play:

A1, in his backcourt, throws a pass towards A2, who is crossing into the FC. The pass is hits a) A2 or b) B2 (either is running outside the arc) in the head and caroms into the basket.

2 or 3?

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Adam

Consider this play:

A1, in his backcourt, throws a pass towards A2, who is crossing into the FC. The pass is hits a) A2 or b) B2 (either is running outside the arc) in the head and caroms into the basket.

2 or 3?

3 points (NFHS). Case book 5.2.1 Situation C.

The ball was thrown from outside the arc; it was legally touched outside the arc; it entered the basket. All the elements of this counting as 3 points are met.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

3 points (NFHS). Case book 5.2.1 Situation C. The ball was thrown from outside the arc; it was legally touched outside the arc; it entered the basket. All the elements of this counting as 3 points are met.

Wrong, it seems, because the OP deals with a throw - in .
How ridiculous would it be if the ball was administered for the throw in between the lane line and the 3 point arc... would a person then assess at as being thrown from inside the arc (from OOB) therefore the defected ball would then be only 2 points? That doesn't make sense because it was not thrown "from the field". Right?

Originally Posted by Freddy

Wrong, it seems, because the OP deals with a throw - in .
How ridiculous would it be if the ball was administered for the throw in between the lane line and the 3 point arc... would a person then assess at as being thrown from inside the arc (from OOB) therefore the defected ball would then be only 2 points? That doesn't make sense because it was not thrown "from the field". Right?

This is where I would invoke 5.2.1 Situation D.

"Following the free throws for a technical foul, A1 makes a throw-in from out of bounds at the division line opposite the table. The throw-in pass is deflected at A’s free-throw line by: (a) A2; or (b) B1 and it then goes directly through A’s basket.

RULING: Score two points for Team A in both (a) and (b). The throw-in ended when the ball was touched by an inbounds player (legal touch) and the live ball subsequently passed through the basket. The fact it was not a tap or a try for goal does not affect the scoring of two points. (4-41-4; 5-2-1)"

If you will notice in 5.2.1 Situation C, the play also references a "legal touch". 5-2-1 is irrelevant to this situation as it only deals with the qualifications for a legal try or tap. This situation is a deflection.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Wrong, it seems, because the OP deals with a throw - in .
How ridiculous would it be if the ball was administered for the throw in between the lane line and the 3 point arc... would a person then assess at as being thrown from inside the arc (from OOB) therefore the defected ball would then be only 2 points? That doesn't make sense because it was not thrown "from the field". Right?

I answered a second question. Correctly.

For the OP, I previously answered that too. 2 points.

[yooperbballref]

This question showed up on the MHSAA postseason exam:

A5 is making a throw-in from the frontcourt sideline. She throws the ball toward A2, who is standing in the lane. However, B3 is strongly contesting the throw-in. B3 is outside the three-point arc when she deflects the throw-in pass. After the deflection by B3, the ball enters Team A’s basket. The officials will properly rule that:

a. Team A has violated the throw-in provisions, and award Team B a throw-in.
b. Team A has scored three points.
c. Team A has scored two points.
d. Team A gets another throw-in, but no points are scored.

Origionally I had thought answer was B, but now thanks to this post I'm now going with C.

Thanks!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

The NFHS rule is different than the NCAA rule. Any "thrown ball from the field" beyond the 3-point arc that enters the basket is 3 points under NFHS rule. One need not judge if this is a pass or not. NCAA requires the official to judge whether it is a pass or a try.

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

3 points (NFHS). Case book 5.2.1 Situation C.

The ball was thrown from outside the arc; it was legally touched outside the arc; it entered the basket. All the elements of this counting as 3 points are met.

That is not the correct interpretation of the rule.

The more specific casebook play disagrees:

4.41.4 SITUATION B: A1’s three-point try is short and below ring level when it hits the shoulder of: (a) A2; or (b) B1 and rebounds to the backboard and through the basket. RULING: The three-point try ended when it was obviously short and below the ring. However, since a live ball went through the basket, two points are scored in both (a) and (b). (5-1)

Since we're told we don't need to judge if it is a try or not, this means that if at any point in the flight of the ball it no longer has a chance of going in without being deflected, it can no longer be a 3.

5.2.1C refers to a ball thrown to the basket that is touched such that it "continues in flight". The distinction is deflection in a new direction vs. a mere touch.

[BayStateRef]

Good point. I know when the rule was changed, the intent was to take away the judgment of whether it was a pass or a try when an "alley oop" from outside the arc went into the basket.

The case play you cite speaks of a try being "short and below the rim." I see this as a long heave (perhaps near the end of a quarter) that hits another player, but bounces into the basket.

I see your point that a hard pass that hits another player's head behind the arc and goes into the basket should be seen in the same light. But I don't agree that it "was obviously short and below the ring" at the time it hit the player. Most shots begin "obviously short and below the ring" until such time as they attain the height and distance to reach the goal.

Given the continued convoluted way the NFHS rules and case books are written and edited, I shouldn't be surprised by this. Clarity is hardly a priority for the rules writers and editors.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I am jumping into the fray some what late, but there is another way to approach theOP whether it is NFHS or NCAA Men's/Women's.

Team A has the ball for a throw-in on the sideline in its front court. A1's throw-in is touched by B1 while the ball is in the cylinder above Team A's basket. What do we have?

MTD, Sr.