The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 18, 2013, 10:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyu2 View Post
aremred, if it was a fumble (by definition) then it would be a violation, right?
Perhaps "muffed or bobbled" would be a better word.
+1
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 18, 2013, 11:32pm
beware big brother
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: illinois
Posts: 996
I have always been under the impression, from watching him on tv and hearing him speak at numerous camps, that Boroski is a pretty solid rules guy. I would have liked to hear the conversation that made him change his mind on this call because I think an argument can be made that the MSU player controlled the ball in the front court. He had 2 hands on the ball before he dropped it and it went into the backcourt.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Oct 19, 2013, 05:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 559
Thanks all. It'd be helpful if the NFHS book actually stated when team control inbounds starts on a throw in.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 21, 2013, 11:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 546
Maybe sort of off-topic, but is there such a thing as a controlled tip that would count as team control. So for example, lets say that the throw in from A1 is off target and heading out of bounds untouched. A2, in the front court "saves" the ball from going out of bounds by intentionally tapping it to A3 who is in the back court. Could this be considered team control by A2 (and thus a backcourt violation when touched by A3) if it was clear that the tap was a controlled pass?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 21, 2013, 11:54am
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
Team control, for the purposes of backcourt or 3 second violations, is established at the same time as player control...by holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. A tip, no matter how controlled, is not either of those.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 28, 2013, 06:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 17
One more look?

Sorry if this dead horse is already cold, but I'd like to kick it one more time if we could.

Since team control starts when the ball is at the disposal, and continues until the ball is secured by the opposing team, it seems to me that the ball has both front court status and team control when it is touched in the front court. When the player that touched it in the front court is the first to touch in the backcourt it seems to me it has got to be a violation.

I am also thinking that the play illustrated in the video may be the reason the new rule book deletes "player and" from the control requirement.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 28, 2013, 06:15pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
They made it abundantly clear when they changed the rule that BC violations were not to be included with the rule change.

They've been horrible about making sure everyone knows this, and as time marches, this will become less and less clear unless they update the rule.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 28, 2013, 09:55pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hard View Post
Sorry if this dead horse is already cold, but I'd like to kick it one more time if we could.

Since team control starts when the ball is at the disposal, and continues until the ball is secured by the opposing team, it seems to me that the ball has both front court status and team control when it is touched in the front court. When the player that touched it in the front court is the first to touch in the backcourt it seems to me it has got to be a violation.

I am also thinking that the play illustrated in the video may be the reason the new rule book deletes "player and" from the control requirement.
Seems like it. But what they have effectively done is create two team controls....and created a lot of confusion in the process.

"team control" begins at disposal on the throwin and continues until the ball is secured by the opposing team or a try is released. "team control" is only used to determine how to administer a foul.

The other one "TEAM CONTROL" begins only when a player of a team has player control inbounds. It also continues until the other team secures control or a try is released. This "TEAM CONTROL" is used to determine when a violation has occurred.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 21, 2013, 11:58am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,191
Sometimes you need to officiate. If there was control, then it's control. If it was a bat, then it wasn't control. If a TO was requested at the time of the event, would you grant it?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 21, 2013, 03:16pm
beware big brother
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: illinois
Posts: 996
Your answer is too simplistic Bob. In NCAA-M asking yourself whether or not you would grant a TO in this situation will not help you distinguish the control/no control question. Even if the player has control, he cannot be granted TO if he is airborne and his momentum is going to cause him to land out of bounds or in the backcourt.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 21, 2013, 03:20pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
Your answer is too simplistic Bob. In NCAA-M asking yourself whether or not you would grant a TO in this situation will not help you distinguish the control/no control question. Even if the player has control, he cannot be granted TO if he is airborne and his momentum is going to cause him to land out of bounds or in the backcourt.
It's a question meant to be used as a rule of thumb to help determine whether control was obtained.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 21, 2013, 03:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
Your answer is too simplistic Bob. In NCAA-M asking yourself whether or not you would grant a TO in this situation will not help you distinguish the control/no control question. Even if the player has control, he cannot be granted TO if he is airborne and his momentum is going to cause him to land out of bounds or in the backcourt.
Same in NCAAW. But, since the thread was all about FED, and since someone who would ask this is not likely to be working college yet (meant with no offense to whoever asked it), ....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thrown bat ? Don Mueller Baseball 4 Tue Apr 24, 2007 08:49pm
thrown bat bethsdad Softball 2 Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:27pm
should I have thrown a flag?? Bubba10Dara Football 12 Wed Oct 22, 2003 09:33pm
Ball thrown in backcourt, player coming from frontcourt... GregAlan Basketball 2 Mon Feb 17, 2003 07:28pm
Thrown Out But Never Played Ump20 Baseball 2 Sun Mar 04, 2001 10:12am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:07pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1