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Old Thu Oct 17, 2013, 10:36pm
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backcourt on a thrown in

I apologize if this has been covered before.

Here's the situation.

A1 throw in. A2 tries to grab the throw in but can only tip it while standing in front court.

A3 then collects the ball in the back court.

Violation or no?
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Old Thu Oct 17, 2013, 10:40pm
AremRed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by constable View Post
I apologize if this has been covered before.

Here's the situation.

A1 throw in. A2 tries to grab the throw in but can only tip it while standing in front court.

A3 then collects the ball in the back court.

Violation or no?
No, team control must be established in the front court before a back court violation can occur. Tip =/= team control
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Old Thu Oct 17, 2013, 10:59pm
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AremRed is correct, No violation.
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Old Fri Oct 18, 2013, 12:04am
AremRed
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This video isn't great, but shows what we are talking about. MSU player receives the throw in and fumbles it into the back court. Bo Boroski calls the violation. Eventually Mike Kitts comes over and discusses it with him (with bonus Ted Valentine!).

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Old Fri Oct 18, 2013, 12:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
This video isn't great, but shows what we are talking about. MSU player receives the throw in and fumbles it into the back court. Bo Boroski calls the violation. Eventually Mike Kitts comes over and discusses it with him (with bonus Ted Valentine!).
Prefect example of the play....and that some of the big dogs don't really know the rules all that well (but Coach Izzo knew it).
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Old Fri Oct 18, 2013, 12:39am
AremRed
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
some of the big dogs don't really know the rules all that well (but Coach Izzo knew it).
Ah, I just think he was too close to the play. Probably looking at the feet for out of bounds and missed the fumble.
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Old Fri Oct 18, 2013, 01:27am
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Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Ah, I just think he was too close to the play. Probably looking at the feet for out of bounds and missed the fumble.
If you insist...but I see it missed more than would be explained by that.
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Old Fri Oct 18, 2013, 08:57am
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Originally Posted by camron rust View Post
if you insist...but i see it missed more than would be explained by that.
+1

And it's going to get worse with time, I think, as the rule stays the same and the powerpoints fade into the veterans' memory. Eventually, the NFHS will decide to just issue a case play making this a violation. After all, everyone is already calling it that way.
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Old Fri Oct 18, 2013, 09:20am
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The black official's box out on the coach was hilarious!!! He didn't even have an illegal use of hands. Bwahahahah!!
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Old Fri Oct 18, 2013, 08:54pm
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definition: fumble 4-21

Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Ah, I just think he was too close to the play. Probably looking at the feet for out of bounds and missed the fumble.
AremRed, if it was a fumble (by definition) then it would be a violation, right?
Perhaps "muffed or bobbled" would be a better word.
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Old Fri Oct 18, 2013, 10:24pm
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Originally Posted by billyu2 View Post
aremred, if it was a fumble (by definition) then it would be a violation, right?
Perhaps "muffed or bobbled" would be a better word.
+1
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Old Fri Oct 18, 2013, 11:32pm
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I have always been under the impression, from watching him on tv and hearing him speak at numerous camps, that Boroski is a pretty solid rules guy. I would have liked to hear the conversation that made him change his mind on this call because I think an argument can be made that the MSU player controlled the ball in the front court. He had 2 hands on the ball before he dropped it and it went into the backcourt.
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Old Sat Oct 19, 2013, 05:26pm
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Thanks all. It'd be helpful if the NFHS book actually stated when team control inbounds starts on a throw in.
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Old Mon Oct 21, 2013, 11:41am
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Maybe sort of off-topic, but is there such a thing as a controlled tip that would count as team control. So for example, lets say that the throw in from A1 is off target and heading out of bounds untouched. A2, in the front court "saves" the ball from going out of bounds by intentionally tapping it to A3 who is in the back court. Could this be considered team control by A2 (and thus a backcourt violation when touched by A3) if it was clear that the tap was a controlled pass?
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Old Mon Oct 21, 2013, 11:54am
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Team control, for the purposes of backcourt or 3 second violations, is established at the same time as player control...by holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. A tip, no matter how controlled, is not either of those.
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