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Old Sat Oct 12, 2013, 07:10am
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Correctable error end of quarter

At the end of the first quarter, A1 fouls B1 before the horn but such that there is no time remaining. The intermission period starts. Just before the AP throwin to start the second quarter, the scorekeeper informs the officials that that was the 7th team foul and B1 should have been awarded FTs. WHat is the procedure here. I would assume B1 would shoot their FT(s) with the lane cleared and then resume the second period as normal. Are these FTs considered part of the first quarter or second quarter?

What about same scenario above except change it to between 4th quarter and OT with a tied score?

Last edited by Sharpshooternes; Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 10:11pm.
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Old Sat Oct 12, 2013, 07:37am
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If the OT hasn't started, then the FTs are part of the 4th quarter and the game will be over if one of the FTs is successful.
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Old Sat Oct 12, 2013, 03:29pm
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I'm not sure it really matters but I think that it would be part of the 1st since the 2nd quarter hadn't actually started yet.
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Old Sat Oct 12, 2013, 03:43pm
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It's A Period Piece ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I'm not sure it really matters but I think that it would be part of the 1st since the 2nd quarter hadn't actually started yet.
If it's after the intermission, isn't the action (free throws) part of the second period?
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Old Sat Oct 12, 2013, 03:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes View Post
At the end of the first quarter, A1 fouls B1 before the horn but such that there is no time remaining. The intermission period starts. Just before the AP throwin to start the second quarter, the scorekeeper informs the officials that that was the 7th team foul and B1 should have been awarded FTs. WHat is the procedure here. I would assume B1 would shoot there FT(s) with the lane cleared and then resume the second period as normal. Are these FTs considered part of the first quarter or second quarter?

What about same scenario above except change it to between 4th quarter and OT with a tied score?
First, if the foul was a common foul and you're adjudicating it you should put time back on the clock. It's either before the horn or after.

As for how to handle it...

2.10.1 SITUATION C:

A1 is fouled with one second remaining in the second quarter. Team A is awarded a throw-in and A1 passes the ball inbounds to A2, the horn sounds ending the quarter. As officials enter the court from the half-time intermission, the scorer informs the Referee that A1 should have been awarded one-and-one bonus situation.

RULING: The error is discovered within the correctable error timeframe, and shall be corrected. A1 is awarded a one-and-one bonus situation with the lane cleared. Resume play from the point of interruption, which is an alternating-possession throw-in to start the third quarter. (2-10-1a; 2-10-6; 5-6-2 Exception 3)
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Old Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
First, if the foul was a common foul and you're adjudicating it you should put time back on the clock. It's either before the horn or after.

As for how to handle it...

2.10.1 SITUATION C:

A1 is fouled with one second remaining in the second quarter. Team A is awarded a throw-in and A1 passes the ball inbounds to A2, the horn sounds ending the quarter. As officials enter the court from the half-time intermission, the scorer informs the Referee that A1 should have been awarded one-and-one bonus situation.

RULING: The error is discovered within the correctable error timeframe, and shall be corrected. A1 is awarded a one-and-one bonus situation with the lane cleared. Resume play from the point of interruption, which is an alternating-possession throw-in to start the third quarter. (2-10-1a; 2-10-6; 5-6-2 Exception 3)
I think I learned something from your post. At the end of a quarter, if a foul happens you should either put time on the clock or wipe off the foul unless it is a shooting foul. In this case, FT(s) are shot with no time on the clock. Basically, you can end a quarter with foul shots but can't end with a common, non-shooting foul.

Now, I am sure that this has been discussed at length, but how do you decide how much time to put back on the clock if you are unsure?
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Old Sun Oct 13, 2013, 06:35am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes View Post
Now, I am sure that this has been discussed at length, but how do you decide how much time to put back on the clock if you are unsure?
If you don't se the time, and it happens so close to the end that time that the timer can't get the clock stopped, then you don't put time back (absent some state directive that says a specific time).

In NCAA with monitors, it can be reviewd to see how much time to put back.
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Old Sun Oct 13, 2013, 08:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
First, if the foul was a common foul and you're adjudicating it you should put time back on the clock. It's either before the horn or after.
I disagree. The case play you quote indicates that there was one second left, that requires that at least one official saw the clock after the whistle.

In NFHS, it's highly possible to have a play happen so quickly that no one sees the clock. Foul, horn, and then everyone looks up at the clock, you administer the free throws with the lane cleared.
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Old Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes View Post
I think I learned something from your post. At the end of a quarter, if a foul happens you should either put time on the clock or wipe off the foul unless it is a shooting foul. In this case, FT(s) are shot with no time on the clock. Basically, you can end a quarter with foul shots but can't end with a common, non-shooting foul.
That is NOT correct.

If the foul happens just before the horn and with time on the clock, you have a foul. However, if it is so close that the time expires and the horn sounds anyway, you can only put time back if you KNOW how much time to put back. But, if you don't know how much time there should be, you don't cancel the foul, common or otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes View Post
Now, I am sure that this has been discussed at length, but how do you decide how much time to put back on the clock if you are unsure?
If you are unsure, 0.
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Old Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes View Post
if a foul happens you should either put time on the clock or wipe off the foul unless it is a shooting foul....can't end with a common, non-shooting foul.
If you call a foul that occurred before the expiration of time you'd better report it, free throws or not. Otherwise you are letting that player get away with a free foul, with no consequences.
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Old Sun Oct 13, 2013, 03:19pm
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Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
If you call a foul that occurred before the expiration of time you'd better report it, free throws or not. Otherwise you are letting that player get away with a free foul, with no consequences.
What consequences (assuming it's the expiration of time for the game and not for Q1-Q3)?

Unless it's flagrant, or the FTs are needed, ignore the reporting in this instance.
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Old Sun Oct 13, 2013, 03:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
What consequences (assuming it's the expiration of time for the game and not for Q1-Q3)?
The post I quoted assumed the end of a quarter, not the game.
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Old Sun Oct 13, 2013, 09:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes View Post
I think I learned something from your post. At the end of a quarter, if a foul happens you should either put time on the clock or wipe off the foul unless it is a shooting foul. In this case, FT(s) are shot with no time on the clock. Basically, you can end a quarter with foul shots but can't end with a common, non-shooting foul.

Now, I am sure that this has been discussed at length, but how do you decide how much time to put back on the clock if you are unsure?
No, you don't wipe off the foul. What I was trying to say was either the foul happened before the horn (LED light, red light) or it didn't. I did err in terms of putting the time back on because I was thinking in NCAA/monitor terms (sorry, lots of meetings recently).

As I look at the OP again I see an issue regarding the wording. It’s completely possible to have a foul with 0:00 on the clock but no horn (no tenths of seconds on the clock), meaning by rule the period isn’t over so it’s not a CE situation…yet. I’m assuming what you meant was foul then horn immediately after but that’s a different scenario than the one in the OP.
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Old Sun Oct 13, 2013, 10:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
That is NOT correct.

If the foul happens just before the horn and with time on the clock, you have a foul. However, if it is so close that the time expires and the horn sounds anyway, you can only put time back if you KNOW how much time to put back. But, if you don't know how much time there should be, you don't cancel the foul, common or otherwise.


If you are unsure, 0.
So just to clarify for everyone as this thread has become a little convoluted. A foul at the end of any period that happens before the LED/Horn but shows that no time remains on the clock and the LED horn has sounded, AND no official has certain knowledge to how much time should be put back on results in either 1) FTs with the lane cleared for a shooting foul or bonus foul OR 2) a common foul reported to the scorekeeper. In both cases, no time is added and the the period is ended. Is that correct?

Last edited by Sharpshooternes; Sun Oct 13, 2013 at 10:18pm.
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Old Sun Oct 13, 2013, 10:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes View Post
So just to clarify for everyone as this thread has become a little convoluted. A foul at the end of any period that happens before the LED/Horn but shows that no time remains on the clock, AND no official has certain knowledge to how much time should be put back on results in either 1) FTs with the lane cleared for a shooting foul or bonus foul OR 2) a common foul reported to the scorekeeper. In both cases, no time is added and the the period is ended. Is that correct?
*If the foul is before the LED/light/horn - assuming any one of them works - but with 0:00 on the clock the period isn't over. If there are FTs they would be shot with players on the lane.

*If the foul is before the LED/Light/horn THEN one of those things goes off immediately after and none of the officials has definite knowledge how much time was left when the whistle was blown then no, you don't add time. If there are FTs they would be shot with NO players on the lane.

*If the foul is before the LED/Light/horn THEN one of those things goes off immediately after and the officials have definite knowledge how much time was left when the whistle was blown then yes, you add time. If there are FTs they would be shot with players on the lane.

In all of these cases the foul is reported.
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