What would you do?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If your suggestion is not to call this a violation then I would disagree ... for the record, the NCAA addressed this as well with video and made it clear we should call these violations anytime seen.

JRutledge: I have to agree with you, it's pretty difficult to argue against a NFHS casebook play. I would call this violation on any level of high school basketball, freshman, junior varsity, or varsity.

But these are seventh graders, not NCAA players. You don't work seventh grade games. I do. Early in the season, and early the game, I would be very likely to blow my whistle and call a do-over, after instructing the players on how to correctly make the throwin. Later in the season, or later in the game, I would be very likely to call the violation, also instructing the players on how to correctly make the throwin. In all cases, I would not ignore the play.

I am also 100% certain that I would be backed by my Catholic middle school assigner. These seventh grade games are referred to as "junior varsity" games and, although competitive, these are also instructional games.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

These seventh grade games are referred to as "junior varsity" games and, although competitive, these are also instructional games.

What better instruction than calling a violation? I am sure they would learn not to do that again.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by AremRed

What better instruction than calling a violation? I am sure they would learn not to do that again.

That would certainly be one way of instructing these twelve year old players, and I would not have any problem with anybody handling it that way. But like I said, first game of the season, first period, confused players, I'm not ignoring the play, I'm sounding my whistle, telling them the right way to do it, and giving them do-over. Keep in mind that this is a league in which officials can use their judgment if some of the younger players on the "junior varsity" team go over the free throw line because they can't reach the basket from fifteen feet. That's the way we roll here in our Catholic middle school league, but I can certainly see where others may handle their seventh grade games differently.

Wait a minute. Do we have two Forum members posting under the name AremRed?

Originally Posted by AremRed

At that level you could either blow the whistle and point to the player to properly inbound the ball ... depending on how generous and/or teachable you are feeling.

[OKREF]

Elementary, and Junior High, I am stopping play and bringing them back for a proper throw in, once, and explaining the correct thing to do. After that I am calling a violation. All other levels no warning, it's a violation.

[Bad Zebra]

This:

Originally Posted by OKREF

Elementary, and Junior High, I am stopping play and bringing them back for a proper throw in, once, and explaining the correct thing to do. After that I am calling a violation. All other levels no warning, it's a violation.

Seems like common sense to me. Falls into the same category as getting them lined up for free throws properly...certainly not by the book, but I'm looking to help teach the game at this level.

[KevinP]

It's 7th grade basketball. Blow the whistle as soon as they grab ball and tell the player what to do. IMO we are not only enforcing the rules but coaching a little bit in the younger grades. I've never had an opposing coach get upset for helping out on a play like that.

[APG]

Originally Posted by KevinP

It's 7th grade basketball. Blow the whistle as soon as they grab ball and tell the player what to do. IMO we are not only enforcing the rules but coaching a little bit in the younger grades. I've never had an opposing coach get upset for helping out on a play like that.

Not that I would get on anyone either way, but the players would get just as much out of you calling a violation or doing it your way.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by KevinP

It's 7th grade basketball. Blow the whistle as soon as they grab ball and tell the player what to do. IMO we are not only enforcing the rules but coaching a little bit in the younger grades. I've never had an opposing coach get upset for helping out on a play like that.

I have never had a coach go nuts when you call a violation (against the other team). Most coaches are yelling for something anyway and like it when you call things. After all, they think it is the NBA and everything that takes place must be called.

Peace

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Wait a minute. Do we have two Forum members posting under the name AremRed?

Nope, just one. I agreed it is a teachable moment at that level, I simply pointed out they could learn from the violation being called, or the play being whistled back to try again. No inconsistency here.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

What better instruction than calling a violation? I am sure they would learn not to do that again.

Why are we treating this different then any other violation? And it is not ticky-tack, it is obvious.

This is the same age of kids that knows how to download files better then their parents and we think they cannot handle what not to do on a throw-in?

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why are we treating this different then any other violation? And it is not ticky-tack, it is obvious.

This is the same age of kids that knows how to download files better then their parents and we think they cannot handle what not to do on a throw-in?

Peace

I think you have to read the game to know. Some times they should know better, sometimes they're barely able to hold the ball. At those levels, you have to call the game to a level that they specific players in the game are ready for.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I think you have to read the game to know. Some times they should know better, sometimes they're barely able to hold the ball. At those levels, you have to call the game to a level that they specific players in the game are ready for.

I do not disagree, but this is a basic rule. I do not think you need to treat this any different then other violations if obvious. If it is borderline I get maybe passing, but not if it is obvious. Then again I work almost none of these games so it is not a big deal to me. I just do not see why this is so special. When I worked these games I had no problem making this call. It usually did not happen again after a call.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then again I work almost none of these games so it is not a big deal to me. I just do not see why this is so special.

Since you don't work these games, you have no idea what goes on in them, especially early in the season. In my area, seventh graders in Catholic middle school play in what is known as a "junior varsity" league, which can include kids that have never played organized basketball before. In that first week of play, and often into subsequent weeks, after a score, the new offensive players will often look like a deer in the headlights, and will look to me, as the new trail, for guidance. I just wave to them and tell them take the ball out of bounds. Sometimes it's due to them waiting for the "designated official inbounder" on the team, who, at the time, may be on the bench. For kids who transition from playing basketball on a Little Tikes six foot basket in their back yard, to playing organized five on five basketball in front of a crowd, the rules can be very confusing. The coaches do the best job that they can in the couple of weeks before the season, but it can still be confusing for some kids, especially those kids on the end of the bench, who probably don't get a lot of reps in practice, but according to league rules, have to play in the game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Since you don't work these games, you have no idea what goes on in them, especially early in the season. In my area, seventh graders in Catholic middle school play in what is known as a "junior varsity" league, which can include kids that have never played organized basketball before. In that first week of play, and often into subsequent weeks, after a score, the new offensive players will often look like a deer in the headlights, and will look to me, as the new trail, for guidance. I just wave to them and tell them take the ball out of bounds. Sometimes it's due to them waiting for the "designated official inbounder" on the team, who, at the time, may be on the bench. For kids who transition from playing basketball on a Little Tikes six foot basket in their back yard, to playing organized five on five basketball in front of a crowd, the rules can be very confusing. The coaches do the best job that they can in the couple of weeks before the season, but it can still be confusing for some kids, especially those kids on the end of the bench, who probably don't get a lot of reps in practice, but according to league rules, have to play in the game.

Actually Billy I have worked those games often over my career. I even did an IESA (the only state Elementary State Organization in the country) Sectional a few years ago. So yes I have worked these games and did so often. I just do not do them now and as a regular part of my schedule because of other opportunities I have gained over the years. And yes, I have called similar things in the past when the opportunity was there. I just do not think this is one of these "It is junior high....." crap that people love to say that should be so drastically different. It is a violation. Yes you see goofy stuff at that level, but I do not see why officials treat it like we have to teach them everything by stopping the game. I have worked football with much younger kids in some cases and we call everything that needs to be called and those rules are a lot more complicated. Basketball how hard is it to know the ball has to be throw-in out of bounds? Sounds simple to me.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why are we treating this different then any other violation? And it is not ticky-tack, it is obvious.

This is the same age of kids that knows how to download files better then their parents and we think they cannot handle what not to do on a throw-in?

Peace

They may know how to operate an IPhone better than I can ... but many of them have managed to make the A-team, and after 3 weeks of practice still don't know they can't dribble with both hands, or they can't stop a dribble and then dribble again.