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kjk5 Sat Sep 28, 2013 08:50pm

What would you do?
 
My friend had this happen to him in a 7th Grade A Team game (NFHS Rules). What would you do? Here goes: A1 makes a basket. After the ball goes through the basket, B1 picks it up and begins dribbling it down court towards their basket and crosses half court and passes off for B2 to take a shot.

What would you do? Blow the whistle as soon as B1 took the ball and started towards their basket giving them the opportunity to take the ball and inbound it? Would you stay at the endline and begin a 5-second count? If you did begin a count and B1 or B2 tried to come back to inbound the ball properly, is it a backcourt violation?

This question has produced alot of discussion as to what the proper decision would be. Needless to say, the coaches had questions too. We can't find anything in the rule or case book on this issue, but maybe you can.

What do you think?

bob jenkins Sat Sep 28, 2013 09:05pm

Ther is either a current case or an annual interp (see the thread on that) to the effect that it's an immediate violation.

This play (or a variant of it) has been discussed since approximately 30 minutes after Al Gore invented the interwebs.

Camron Rust Sat Sep 28, 2013 09:06pm

There is a case book or interpretation that has been made on this play. It was a few years ago that it was made. It is out there, I'll leave it to someone else (you) to dig a little deeper to find it.

Before the ruling, there was the same disagreement as you're experiencing...count to 5 or violation right away or blow the whistle and instruct them that it is a throwin.

The ruling...as soon as they turn up court without making a proper throwin, it is a throwin violation. Do not wait for 5 seconds to elapse.

AremRed Sat Sep 28, 2013 09:09pm

No backcourt violation because the ball was never in play. At that level you could either blow the whistle and point to the player to properly inbound the ball, or start a 5-second count, depending on how generous and/or teachable you are feeling.

In a HS Varsity or college game I think it is a violation right away.

Adam Sat Sep 28, 2013 09:50pm

Playing under NFHS rules, this is a violation immediately (as noted).
7th grade? I'd probably kill the play and bring them back, depending on the talent level on the court. Counting to 5 is not an option, though.

Freddy Sun Sep 29, 2013 06:44am

9.2.2.c

BillyMac Sun Sep 29, 2013 07:24am

Be A Plumber ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 906361)
9.2.2.c

9.2.2 SITUATION C: A1 scores a basket. After the ball goes through the net, B1
grabs it and makes a move toward the end line as though preparing to make a
throw-in. However, B1 never legally steps out of bounds, both feet remain
inbounds. B1 immediately passes the ball up the court to a fast-breaking teammate,
who scores a basket. RULING: Cancel Team B's goal, throw-in violation on
B1. The ball was at B1's disposal after the made basket to make a throw-in. B1
must be out of bounds to make a legal throw-in. (7-4-3; 7-5-7)

Stat-Man Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 906345)
Playing under NFHS rules, this is a violation immediately (as noted).
7th grade? I'd probably kill the play and bring them back, depending on the talent level on the court. Counting to 5 is not an option, though.

This is what my partner & I did in our 7th grade game last week.

JRutledge Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 906362)
9.2.2 SITUATION C: A1 scores a basket. After the ball goes through the net, B1
grabs it and makes a move toward the end line as though preparing to make a
throw-in. However, B1 never legally steps out of bounds, both feet remain
inbounds. B1 immediately passes the ball up the court to a fast-breaking teammate,
who scores a basket. RULING: Cancel Team B's goal, throw-in violation on
B1. The ball was at B1's disposal after the made basket to make a throw-in. B1
must be out of bounds to make a legal throw-in. (7-4-3; 7-5-7)

If your suggestion is not to call this a violation (not necessarily the OP) then I would disagree. This is likely obvious to someone observing they did not step out of bounds. And it prevents situations of sloppiness when the game is on the line. And for the record, the NCAA addressed this as well with video and made it clear we should call these violations anytime seen. And if you look at what happened a few years ago near the end of a game when this was not called, and the shit storm that followed, I think we should call these when they happen.

Peace

BillyMac Sun Sep 29, 2013 04:10pm

There Only Twelve Years Old ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 906374)
If your suggestion is not to call this a violation then I would disagree ... for the record, the NCAA addressed this as well with video and made it clear we should call these violations anytime seen.

JRutledge: I have to agree with you, it's pretty difficult to argue against a NFHS casebook play. I would call this violation on any level of high school basketball, freshman, junior varsity, or varsity.

But these are seventh graders, not NCAA players. You don't work seventh grade games. I do. Early in the season, and early the game, I would be very likely to blow my whistle and call a do-over, after instructing the players on how to correctly make the throwin. Later in the season, or later in the game, I would be very likely to call the violation, also instructing the players on how to correctly make the throwin. In all cases, I would not ignore the play.

I am also 100% certain that I would be backed by my Catholic middle school assigner. These seventh grade games are referred to as "junior varsity" games and, although competitive, these are also instructional games.

AremRed Sun Sep 29, 2013 04:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 906388)
These seventh grade games are referred to as "junior varsity" games and, although competitive, these are also instructional games.

What better instruction than calling a violation? I am sure they would learn not to do that again.

BillyMac Sun Sep 29, 2013 04:43pm

Seventh Grade Basketball, I'm What You Call An Expert ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 906389)
What better instruction than calling a violation? I am sure they would learn not to do that again.

That would certainly be one way of instructing these twelve year old players, and I would not have any problem with anybody handling it that way. But like I said, first game of the season, first period, confused players, I'm not ignoring the play, I'm sounding my whistle, telling them the right way to do it, and giving them do-over. Keep in mind that this is a league in which officials can use their judgment if some of the younger players on the "junior varsity" team go over the free throw line because they can't reach the basket from fifteen feet. That's the way we roll here in our Catholic middle school league, but I can certainly see where others may handle their seventh grade games differently.

Wait a minute. Do we have two Forum members posting under the name AremRed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 906343)
At that level you could either blow the whistle and point to the player to properly inbound the ball ... depending on how generous and/or teachable you are feeling.


OKREF Sun Sep 29, 2013 05:09pm

Elementary, and Junior High, I am stopping play and bringing them back for a proper throw in, once, and explaining the correct thing to do. After that I am calling a violation. All other levels no warning, it's a violation.

AremRed Sun Sep 29, 2013 06:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 906390)
Wait a minute. Do we have two Forum members posting under the name AremRed?

Nope, just one. I agreed it is a teachable moment at that level, I simply pointed out they could learn from the violation being called, or the play being whistled back to try again. No inconsistency here.

Bad Zebra Sun Sep 29, 2013 06:29pm

This:
Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 906391)
Elementary, and Junior High, I am stopping play and bringing them back for a proper throw in, once, and explaining the correct thing to do. After that I am calling a violation. All other levels no warning, it's a violation.


Seems like common sense to me. Falls into the same category as getting them lined up for free throws properly...certainly not by the book, but I'm looking to help teach the game at this level.


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