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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 26, 2013, 07:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
10. Inappropriate, as I understand it, varies widely according to area and level.

11. If everybody else where you are does it, it must be all right.
Regarding 11, I would agree, so long as everyone else in your area is getting games that you want. It's possible, for example, that everyone else in your area is doing it, but no one in your area is getting state level playoff games. Or, perhaps, only the 2% who dress in the locker room are getting playoff games.

Or, it truly doesn't matter in your entire state.
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Old Thu Sep 26, 2013, 08:01am
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I'd add another one that I've observed more frequently in the past 5 years:

Engage in inappropriate behavior outside the lines.

Pretty broad I know but I've seen the following:
Officials charged with DUI's
Officials arrested for marijuana posession
Officials charged with domestic violence
Officials banned from school grounds for various reasons
Officials arrested for assault
Officials charged with indecent exposure

I used to believe sports officials were some of the highest character people around. Maybe it's because I'm in Florida and this place attracts whackos, but it seems like I see these occur more often than would be expected. In every instance noted above, the offending official ended up losing out on their schedule or being asked to leave the association, whether or not they were found guilty or charges dismissed.
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Last edited by Bad Zebra; Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:06am.
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Old Thu Sep 26, 2013, 08:29am
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I've got an addition; Visable tattoos.

I've got one that comes halfway down my bicep on one arm and wear an undershirt to cover it when I'm working. I would love to sleeve my tattoo out, but I'm pretty sure it would limit my options for reffing.
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Old Thu Sep 26, 2013, 05:00pm
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What, No Tuxedo ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moosie74 View Post
Tie and jacket for varsity.
Wow? Back when I started, thirty-two years ago, it was encouraged, but not dictated, that we wear ties, but never jackets. We've evolved since then to business casual.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 07:12pm. Reason: 6 posts condensed into two
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 28, 2013, 04:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Zebra View Post
I'd add another one that I've observed more frequently in the past 5 years:

Engage in inappropriate behavior outside the lines.

Pretty broad I know but I've seen the following:
Officials charged with DUI's
Officials arrested for marijuana posession
Officials charged with domestic violence
Officials banned from school grounds for various reasons
Officials arrested for assault
Officials charged with indecent exposure

I used to believe sports officials were some of the highest character people around. Maybe it's because I'm in Florida and this place attracts whackos, but it seems like I see these occur more often than would be expected. In every instance noted above, the offending official ended up losing out on their schedule or being asked to leave the association, whether or not they were found guilty or charges dismissed.
Which is total bullshit.
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Old Sat Sep 28, 2013, 06:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt View Post
Which is total bullshit.
Maybe so...but it's all about perception and credibility. Based on the arrest...those officials are usually blackballed by AD's regardless of outcome and the association is usually left with an unassignable official. I've seen it three times in 12 seasons.

I appreciate your strong disagreement but ya might choose a different decriptive term.
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Old Sat Sep 28, 2013, 09:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt View Post
Which is total bullshit.
Not being found guilty doesn't mean they didn't do it. Perhaps they did but worked out a plea to not go to court. That doesn't make it right just because they got off with it. Perhaps in the above case, every one of them actually did what they were charged with.
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Old Sun Sep 29, 2013, 03:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Not being found guilty doesn't mean they didn't do it. Perhaps they did but worked out a plea to not go to court. That doesn't make it right just because they got off with it. Perhaps in the above case, every one of them actually did what they were charged with.
If you worked out a plea agreement, you have admitted to some kind of crime. You avoid court to not get the harshest of penalties if convicted.

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Old Sun Sep 29, 2013, 08:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Not being found guilty doesn't mean they didn't do it. Perhaps they did but worked out a plea to not go to court. That doesn't make it right just because they got off with it. Perhaps in the above case, every one of them actually did what they were charged with.
Right on the money. In every case I noted, they were guilty as charged. In four instances, the offense took place (amazingly) either immediately before or after a HS contest...on school property or adjacent. At least two pleaded no contest to avoid a guilty verdict. Most others found guilty.

My whole point is that as an official for school contests, one should understand that any "outside the lines" transgression is going to reflect on your status as an official and affect your career. If that seems unfair, maybe consider another avocation. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.
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Old Sun Sep 29, 2013, 09:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Zebra View Post
Right on the money. In every case I noted, they were guilty as charged. In four instances, the offense took place (amazingly) either immediately before or after a HS contest...on school property or adjacent. At least two pleaded no contest to avoid a guilty verdict. Most others found guilty.

My whole point is that as an official for school contests, one should understand that any "outside the lines" transgression is going to reflect on your status as an official and affect your career. If that seems unfair, maybe consider another avocation. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.
As long as each one was handled individually, it seems fair. I would just hate for there to be a situation where an official was black-balled because he was arrested for a crime that was actually committed by a one-armed intruder.
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Old Sun Sep 29, 2013, 05:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Zebra View Post
I'd add another one that I've observed more frequently in the past 5 years:

Engage in inappropriate behavior outside the lines.

....
Officials arrested for assault
....

There's a pretty low standard for swearing out an assault charge, and it doesn't have to include any bodily contact.

You and Camron are comfortable in that ending an official's career?
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Old Sun Sep 29, 2013, 06:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
There's a pretty low standard for swearing out an assault charge, and it doesn't have to include any bodily contact.

You and Camron are comfortable in that ending an official's career?
Not always. I'm sure the specific circumstances surrounding the incident are pretty relevant.

The one instance I'm aware of dealt with a member of the opposite sex ("battery" may actually be the correct term...I don't know the difference). It was pretty high profile. Word got around quickly. The official involved wasn't well liked or highly rated to begin with. Some coaches and AD's just used it as fuel to marginalize him. He lost his schedule that season. The association tried to assign him the following year after things settled down and the coaches still scratched him (which is their option in our area).

I'm not advocating that it should automatically be a career ender. I'm just saying that officials are going to be under a microscope when it comes to off-field/court behavior...whether that's fair or not, that's the way it is.
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Last edited by Bad Zebra; Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 06:06pm.
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Old Sun Sep 29, 2013, 06:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
There's a pretty low standard for swearing out an assault charge, and it doesn't have to include any bodily contact.

You and Camron are comfortable in that ending an official's career?
I am comfortable that it CAN end their career. It shouldn't always, but in some cases, it should. And it shouldn't take a guilty conviction to do so.

That is not to say that an accusation should be enough but more along the lines of civil law where a preponderance of the evidence is sufficient rather than proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

There are plenty of wrongful death suits out there where the defendant was found not guilty of murder. This seems to be the same thing.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 06:46pm.
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Old Mon Sep 30, 2013, 05:56am
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I was feeling left out so I figured what the heck...

Dressed/not dressed: For HS I work in two different states (NY/NJ) and I've seen two different things. In NY, specifically NYC, we're to come to the game in street clothes (no ripped jeans, etc.). If we don't come to the game in street clothes our assignor better know why beforehand (either they okayed it because you got a last-minute call or the site doesn't have adequate dressing facilities). If the AD or one of the coaches doesn't rat you out, there might be an observer in the stands who'll do the honors.

In NJ I've noticed folks coming to games with their gear on much more often but NJ assignors often give people two games on a day (4P & 7P) at two different sites so it's a matter of expediency. I've never pulled a double in NJ but I have in NYC and I changed back into my street clothes before heading to the second game and I'd do it in NJ if the situation came up because that's how I was trained.

Jewelry: My HS assignors don't tend to bother people about wedding bands but they're a definite "no" with my college assignors. For medic alert situatons both the HS and college folks I work for tell those who need them to use the necklace and tape it down.

Past legal transgressions: NYC HS took care of that for the most part starting in the '08-09 school year when the DOE implemented a fingerprinting requirement for anyone who regularly works as a contractor with the agency. Let's just say I got a few more assignments that season when our ranks took a bit of a hit. As far as NJ HS and NCAAW I could be working with people on work release and I wouldn't know because they don't check. I know NCAA runs background checks on officials who work the Div. 1 tournament (not sure about D2 or D3) which is more about gambling but obviously they'll pick up other stuff.
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Old Mon Sep 30, 2013, 06:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
I've noticed folks coming to games with their gear on ... assignors often give people two games on a day at two different sites so it's a matter of expediency.
Acceptable here as well.
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