Disconcertion From The Bench

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Do not even consider cheerleaders and fans when applying this rule.

Agree 100%.

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The word Opponent has never been defined in the Rules.

Technically, true, but lets look outside of Rule 4 for some help from the NFHS as to how they define opponents:

2011-12 POINTS OF EMPHASIS
1. SPORTING BEHAVIOR. The NFHS Basketball Rules Committee continues to be concerned about the following behaviors:
A. Pregame Situations. Teams entering the gymnasium prior to the contest should not run through the area occupied by
the opposing team or under the basket where opponents are warming up.

I doubt that the opponents are only the five players (this is my best evidence, the rest is borderline silly).

NFHS Common Symptoms of Concussion Include: Unsure of game, score or opponent.

I doubt that the possibly concussed player is going to say the name of one of the five players, probably going to say, "East Oshkosh", referring to the entire team.

NFHS Coaches Code of Ethics: The coach shall not scout opponents by any means other than those adopted by the league and/or state high school athletic association.

I doubt that the coach is only going to scout five players at a time, he will probably scout the entire team.

The citations above are, granted, quite weak, and kind of lame, but they are evidence that leads me to believe that the NFHS considers opponents to include the five players, and bench personnel.

While not defined in Rule 4, we can always go to a dictionary:

Opponent (Noun): a person who is on an opposing side in a game, contest, controversy, or the like; adversary.

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Opponent in the context of the Disconcertion Rule (NFHS) that the rule applies to the five defensive players on the court; it does NOT apply to Bench Personnel.

You could be correct, but I've yet to see any evidence, rule reference, case play, or any other citation from anyone on the Forum, or anywhere else, that proves that bench personnel can't be opponents. Nor have I seen any similar evidence to the contrary, i.e., supporting my side of the debate, other than the evidence that I have cited above. Does weak evidence trump no evidence?

Let's add a little mustard, just to make things interesting.

How about the opposing coach on the bench disconcerting the free thrower? He's not a player, but he is part of the bench personnel. Is he an opponent? Could we go with a violation, or do we go directly to an unsporting technical foul?

Note: Thanks for letting Mark come out to play with us Mrs. DeNucci.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree 100%.



Technically, true, but lets look outside of Rule 4 for some help from the NFHS as to how they define opponents:

2011-12 POINTS OF EMPHASIS
1. SPORTING BEHAVIOR. The NFHS Basketball Rules Committee continues to be concerned about the following behaviors:
A. Pregame Situations. Teams entering the gymnasium prior to the contest should not run through the area occupied by
the opposing team or under the basket where opponents are warming up.

I doubt that the opponents are only the five players (this is my best evidence, the rest is borderline silly).

NFHS Common Symptoms of Concussion Include: Unsure of game, score or opponent.

I doubt that the possibly concussed player is going to say the name of one of the five players, probably going to say, "East Oshkosh", referring to the entire team.

NFHS Coaches Code of Ethics: The coach shall not scout opponents by any means other than those adopted by the league and/or state high school athletic association.

I doubt that the coach is only going to scout five players at a time, he will probably scout the entire team.

The citations above are, granted, quite weak, and kind of lame, but they are evidence that leads me to believe that the NFHS considers opponents to include the five players, and bench personnel.

While not defined in Rule 4, we can always go to a dictionary:

Opponent (Noun): a person who is on an opposing side in a game, contest, controversy, or the like; adversary.



You could be correct, but I've yet to see any evidence, rule reference, case play, or any other citation from anyone on the Forum, or anywhere else, that proves that bench personnel can't be opponents. Nor have I seen any similar evidence to the contrary, i.e., supporting my side of the debate, other than the evidence that I have cited above. Does weak evidence trump no evidence?

Let's add a little mustard, just to make things interesting.

How about the opposing coach on the bench disconcerting the free thrower? He's not a player, but he is part of the bench personnel. Is he an opponent? Could we go with a violation, or do we go directly to an unsporting technical foul?

Note: Thanks for letting Mark come out to play with us Mrs. DeNucci.

Billy:

I want to thank you for adding valid points to the discussion. (I was too lazy to climb up into the attic to read them. ) But you show how muddle the information is concerning this particular rule.

When pressed for a definitive interpretation, I will go with the interpretation that says Violation for the five defensive players on the court and TF for Bench Personnel. BUT I wouldn't get upset if an official only enforced a Violation on Bench Personnel if the infraction was not egregious. That is why I am more flexible with games played at the Jr. H.S. level and below.

Until the NFHS and NCAA Rules Committees define what is an opponent per the Disconcertion Rule, we will continue to have this discussion.

MTD, Sr.

[Zoochy]

Why do opposing coaches yell "Rebound" during a Free Throw? Sometimes it is on the 1st of 2 throws. No intent to disconcert there.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Why do opposing coaches yell "Rebound" during a Free Throw ... Sometimes it is on the 1st of 2 throws.

Tourette's Syndrome?