Disconcertion From The Bench

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Adam

No flames. I agree. In order for me to even address it, it's going to have to be an obviously concerted effort; such as a chant or stomp.

GV game, a few years ago: 1st half - during 1st of 2 FT's - bench players: "stomp, stomp, clap, clap, "Miss it! Miss it!" and repeated . . .
Delayed violation signal, and shooter made the 1st shot. We then informed the coach that the choreographed actions would not be tolerated, and could be considered unsporting. She asked if they couldn't say anything during the shots.
We replied that the issue was the choreography, and as long as the verbiage and comments were not out-of-line, they could feel free to express themselves. She and her players seemed to understand, and we had no further incidents.

[stripes]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

GV game, a few years ago: 1st half - during 1st of 2 FT's - bench players: "stomp, stomp, clap, clap, "Miss it! Miss it!" and repeated . . .
Delayed violation signal, and shooter made the 1st shot. We then informed the coach that the choreographed actions would not be tolerated, and could be considered unsporting. She asked if they couldn't say anything during the shots.
We replied that the issue was the choreography, and as long as the verbiage and comments were not out-of-line, they could feel free to express themselves. She and her players seemed to understand, and we had no further incidents.

For me this is an example of something I would not even bother addressing. I said it before, this is not golf...noise and distractions are part of the game...even from the bench. Don't look for trouble.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by stripes

For me this is an example of something I would not even bother addressing. I said it before, this is not golf...noise and distractions are part of the game...even from the bench. Don't look for trouble.

I'd have no problem addressing that situation.

1. It's bush league garbage. The coach should be embarassed to be doing it.
2. It's rare, so telling him to knock it off is easy.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

GV game, a few years ago: 1st half - during 1st of 2 FT's - bench players: "stomp, stomp, clap, clap, "Miss it! Miss it!" and repeated . . . Delayed violation signal, and shooter made the 1st shot. We then informed the coach that the choreographed actions would not be tolerated, and could be considered unsporting.

Originally Posted by stripes

For me this is an example of something I would not even bother addressing ... noise and distractions are part of the game...even from the bench.

Wrong. It's unsporting, it's not part of the game of basketball, and it has to be addressed in some manner, maybe just a warning, maybe a disconcertion violation, or maybe the "nuclear" option of an unsporting technical foul. An official cannot ignore this type of behavior.

[stripes]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Wrong. It's unsporting, it's not part of the game of basketball, and it has to be addressed in some manner, maybe just a warning, maybe a disconcertion violation, or maybe the "nuclear" option of an unsporting technical foul. An official cannot ignore this type of behavior.

Totally disagree. Noise and distractions are part of the game. If you want to open that can of worms...be my guest. I see nothing wrong with what the bench personnel were described as doing. IMO, a FT shooter should be able tune out the things described and that makes them, once again, IMO, something to ignore.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by stripes

Totally disagree. Noise and distractions are part of the game. If you want to open that can of worms...be my guest. I see nothing wrong with what the bench personnel were described as doing. IMO, a FT shooter should be able tune out the things described and that makes them, once again, IMO, something to ignore.

STRIPES: I AM GOING TO STOP THIS NONSENSE NOW!! THE BEHAVIOR BY BENCH PERSONNEL DESCRIBED IN A POST ABOVE IS ABSOLUTELY PROHIBITED BY RULE: IT IS UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT AND IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE INTESTINAL FORTITUDE TO ENFORCE IT THEN GET THE HELL OUT OF THE BASKETBALL OFFICIATING PROFESSION! THERE IS NO DEFENSE THAT YOU CAN GIVE FOR FAILURE TO PENALIZE BENCH PERSONNEL FOR THIS TYPE OF CONDUCT! I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT YOU WOULD TAKE THE POSITION THAT THIS TYPE OF CONDUCT IS ALLOWED BY THE RULES!

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

STRIPES: I AM GOING TO STOP THIS NONSENSE NOW!! THE BEHAVIOR BY BENCH PERSONNEL DESCRIBED IN A POST ABOVE IS ABSOLUTELY PROHIBITED BY RULE: IT IS UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT AND IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE INTESTINAL FORTITUDE TO ENFORCE IT THEN GET THE HELL OUT OF THE BASKETBALL OFFICIATING PROFESSION! THERE IS NO DEFENSE THAT YOU CAN GIVE FOR FAILURE TO PENALIZE BENCH PERSONNEL FOR THIS TYPE OF CONDUCT! I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT YOU WOULD TAKE THE POSITION THAT THIS TYPE OF CONDUCT IS ALLOWED BY THE RULES!

C'mon Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Tell us what you really think. Don't be so wishy washy. Don't hold it in. Let it all out.

[stripes]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

STRIPES: I AM GOING TO STOP THIS NONSENSE NOW!! THE BEHAVIOR BY BENCH PERSONNEL DESCRIBED IN A POST ABOVE IS ABSOLUTELY PROHIBITED BY RULE: IT IS UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT AND IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE INTESTINAL FORTITUDE TO ENFORCE IT THEN GET THE HELL OUT OF THE BASKETBALL OFFICIATING PROFESSION! THERE IS NO DEFENSE THAT YOU CAN GIVE FOR FAILURE TO PENALIZE BENCH PERSONNEL FOR THIS TYPE OF CONDUCT! I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT YOU WOULD TAKE THE POSITION THAT THIS TYPE OF CONDUCT IS ALLOWED BY THE RULES!

MTD, Sr.

MTD, please stop shouting and get off your high horse. Don't try and patronize me by using bold font and capital letters. Shouting and high post counts don't make you right. Trying to tell me to leave officiating because you disagree with me is ludicrous. I don't know who died and made you the over-lord of officiating, but here is a news flash: you're not that guy. You don't know a thing about me, my officiating or my "intestinal fortitude." If you, or anyone else, wants to call things like this, I can't stop you, but what I end up doing in my games is cleaning up the mess from people doing things like this.

If you don't like my opinions, ignore them. I have found that easily done with you.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by stripes

Trying to tell me to leave officiating because you disagree with me is ludicrous.

I have to agree with this. The response from MTD was way out of proportion with the issue.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by stripes

Shouting and high post counts don't make you right.

Correct. Being right is what makes him right.

Trying to tell me to leave officiating because you disagree with me is ludicrous.

He was not telling you to leave because you disagree with each other. He was telling you that if you can't see this as an obvious thing you need to handle, then you don't have the intestinal fortitude to do this job. Thus, you should stop.

You don't know a thing about me, my officiating or my "intestinal fortitude."

Bluntly, sir, yes we do ... based solely on your own comments.

what I end up doing in my games is cleaning up the mess from people doing things like this.

Actually those who don't handle business like this make things more difficult on everyone else. I can't imagine a scenario where your predecessors handling this crap from the bench could possibly make things harder on someone unable to handle it on his own. The logic here makes no sense.

If you don't like my opinions, ignore them. I have found that easily done with you.

Despite evidence to the contrary; exhibit A being this post.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by stripes

MTD, please stop shouting and get off your high horse. Don't try and patronize me by using bold font and capital letters. Shouting and high post counts don't make you right. Trying to tell me to leave officiating because you disagree with me is ludicrous. I don't know who died and made you the over-lord of officiating, but here is a news flash: you're not that guy. You don't know a thing about me, my officiating or my "intestinal fortitude." If you, or anyone else, wants to call things like this, I can't stop you, but what I end up doing in my games is cleaning up the mess from people doing things like this.

If you don't like my opinions, ignore them. I have found that easily done with you.

Regardless of how inappropriate MTD's response was, have to ask. What sort of mess are you cleaning up? 1. I've never had a bench pull crap like this. 2. I've never had a coach complain about the noise from other bench.

What mess are you talking about?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by stripes

Totally disagree. Noise and distractions are part of the game. If you want to open that can of worms...be my guest. I see nothing wrong with what the bench personnel were described as doing. IMO, a FT shooter should be able tune out the things described and that makes them, once again, IMO, something to ignore.

Noise and distractions? Yes. Concerted chanting and stomping from the bench? Nope. Fans get to do all sorts of things coaches and players can't. This is no exception.

[BayStateRef]

I understand "opponent" the way Billy does: anyone on the other team. The rules' writers would have said "players" if they wanted us to penalize only those on the floor.

I have called disconcertion on a coach...who yelled, precisely as the free throw shooter released the first of two free throws: "Box Out." I have also called it on a player, an inch on the north side of the 3-point line, who clapped and yelled "Rebound" at the precise moment that ball was released. We get to make judgments as to what is disconcertion. Absent any specific guidance (from the NFHS or from my assignor), I applied the rule as I understood it.

I do not agree this is a technical foul for unsporting conduct. The disconcertion rule fits perfectly here. There is no need to look for any other penalty.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

I understand "opponent" the way Billy does: anyone on the other team. The rules' writers would have said "players" if they wanted us to penalize only those on the floor.

I have called disconcertion on a coach...who yelled, precisely as the free throw shooter released the first of two free throws: "Box Out." I have also called it on a player, an inch on the north side of the 3-point line, who clapped and yelled "Rebound" at the precise moment that ball was released. We get to make judgments as to what is disconcertion. Absent any specific guidance (from the NFHS or from my assignor), I applied the rule as I understood it.

I do not agree this is a technical foul for unsporting conduct. The disconcertion rule fits perfectly here. There is no need to look for any other penalty.

While I agree with you, I don't agree with your "the rules' writers would have said 'players'" point. I don't share your confidence in their skills.