Disconcertion by the defensive teams bench

[cas659]

I had a game tonight and in the first half I was administering a free throw. The defensive team was yelling and banging their chair during the free throw. I felt this was disconcertion and consulted my fellow refferee. He felt it was o.k. I'm looking for some input. I had several complaints from the stands. If nothing else I feel it was unsportsman like of the defensive team.

[BktBallRef]

Some will tell you that this is a technical foul. It's not. But it is a violation.

9-1-5
No opponent shall disconcert the free thrower.

Note that the rule does not say "No player shall disconcert the free thrower," it says opponent. Bench personnel are opponents.

Violation.

[PS2Man]

I know of no rule that is specific to the bench doing this. But I know I would not allow it. They should not be acting like fans to distract the free throw shooter in this way or disconcert them either. I think you could easily T someone on the bench for conduct. But at the very least just warn them to knock it off. That has worked for me in the past.

[JRutledge]

"You have no idea the firestorm you've re-ignited."

Yes, the poor man has started something.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by PS2Man
I know of no rule that is specific to the bench doing this. But I know I would not allow it. They should not be acting like fans to distract the free throw shooter in this way or disconcert them either. I think you could easily T someone on the bench for conduct. But at the very least just warn them to knock it off. That has worked for me in the past.

9-1-5

[BigJoe]

Don't forget the defensive team's cheerleaders as well. I had to warn them not to cheer while the opponants were shooting the free throws. I called for the ball back from the shooter and told them not to cheer while the player had the ball or was shooting. Got booed from the crowd, but, hey, we definitely aren't trying to win any popularity contests out there.
Cas659- sometimes when you think you are right on something, you probably read it in the rulebook or casebook. Stick to your guns. That is why it is very important when you are starting up to study both books. If you are wrong, you learn, and don't make the same mistake twice.

[PS2Man]

Originally posted by BktBallRef


9-1-5

Yes that might apply. But there are those that do not feel the spirit of the rule means the bench. And you look in the casebook, there is no specific ruling that covers this. It is implied but not spelled out in my opinion clearly.

[David B]

Did he make the FT? If he did then i would tell them to knock it off.

If he missed the FT then you might have a violation depending on what you thought.

If your other official didn't think it was, then it might not have been that bad, but i would still tell them to knock if off.

Thanks
David

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by BigJoe
Don't forget the defensive team's cheerleaders as well. I had to warn them not to cheer while the opponants were shooting the free throws. I called for the ball back from the shooter and told them not to cheer while the player had the ball or was shooting.

Why? Is there a rule in your state that forbids it?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by PS2Man

Yes that might apply. But there are those that do not feel the spirit of the rule means the bench.

I know. Those people are wrong.

If the intent of the rule was to address players only, then the rule would read, "No opposing player may disconcert." But it doesn't say that. It says no opponent. Everyone on the bench is part of the team and is, therefore, the opponent.

Cheerleaders are not the opponent.

[Schmidt MJ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by PS2Man
[B]

Originally posted by BktBallRef



Cheerleaders are not the opponent.

While this is true, I seem to remember being told at one time that the cheerleaders do fall under the jurisdiction of the officials for the circumstances we are talking about since they are school representatives. I don't remember if I read this in the case book or heard it at a state rules meeting or my association meeting or if this was just a veteran official offering his advice/opinion. I have asked the cheerleaders to not cheer/yell/wave while a free throw is being administered once or twice. They've always complied without a problem. This would mainly apply when the cheerleaders are on the baseline. Most gyms I work don't have fans on the baseline, but if they did I don't believe I'd have any jurisdiction for telling them what to do or not to do, other than possibly asking game management to help us promote proper sportsmanship. Just my opinion.

[BigJoe]

Most of the gyms I officiate in the cheerleaders position themselves on the endlines. When there is a free throw being shot by the opposition on their end, I think that rule 9-1-5 applies. They are more likely to disconcert a free thrower with a high leg kick than any player on the bench rattling a chair!!!! I would say that they are opponants as well as the players on the bench. Their proximity to the court puts them in that category.

[Bart Tyson]

Originally posted by cas659
The defensive ... banging their chair during the free throw.

artificial noise makers

Not allowed

[SteveF]

Originally posted by BigJoe
Most of the gyms I officiate in the cheerleaders position themselves on the endlines. When there is a free throw being shot by the opposition on their end, I think that rule 9-1-5 applies. They are more likely to disconcert a free thrower with a high leg kick than any player on the bench rattling a chair!!!! I would say that they are opponants as well as the players on the bench. Their proximity to the court puts them in that category.

I agree. They are on my court and therefore are under my authority. Game management has the stands while I have the court. However at a higher level I let them cheer as long as they are not within the area of the lane extended out of bounds. And yes the rules do give me that authority. Remember I have the right to make all dicisions on anything not covered in the rules.

[theboys]

Various and sundry comments/questions:

My kid was pinched on the rear by a cheerleader while throwing the ball in. I don't know if its disconcertion or not, but it sure got his attention!

Since artificial noisemakers were mentioned, I have a situation I'd like comment on. We play in a couple of gyms in which the stands extend out to within three or four feet of the baseline. The stands are elevated, such that the lowest row is about five feet off the ground. The front of the stands are protected by wall mats. In one gym, the fans bang on the mats to disconcert the FT shooter. It wouldn't bother me except the fans are right on top of the players. I suppose it doesn't qualify as an artificial noisemaker, as its akin to stomping on the stands, but its a heckuva lot louder.

Last, the behavior of fans at different high schools varies widely, as you know. Our high school keeps a tight rein on the kids, with strict enforcement of good behavior. We've played at some schools where pretty much anything goes. Tuesday, however, when the kids hollered "you suck" after a missed FT, one of the refs told them to knock it off. Many of you don't feel that's your job, I know, but I appreciated it. And, would appreciate if it was our kids doing it, too.