Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game ...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

This really explains so much.

It should. I am trying to figure out why I must agree with what is on a list. You have not explained that to me yet.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It should. I am trying to figure out why I must agree with what is on a list. You have not explained that to me yet.

Peace

I'm not saying you have to. I'm saying you're not even understanding what it is you're disagreeing with. Or, you're intentionally misstating their opinions to make some point.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm not saying you have to. I'm saying you're not even understanding what it is you're disagreeing with. Or, you're intentionally misstating their opinions to make some point.

I understand, I just disagree with the premise. And the example you gave from Adam, happens all the time without any specifics being given to the thrower. I have had coaches think it was a travel and I was not even the administering official and I was not anywhere near enough to hear what an officials said or did not say to the thrower. It did not change the reaction of a coach that felt they could travel out of bounds on a throw-in. You really need to try that one again.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I understand, I just disagree with the premise. And the example you gave from Adam, happens all the time without any specifics being given to the thrower. I have had coaches think it was a travel and I was not even the administering official and I was not anywhere near enough to hear what an officials said or did not say to the thrower. It did not change the reaction of a coach that felt they could travel out of bounds on a throw-in. You really need to try that one again.

Peace

You seem to be misunderstanding again.
The scenario you are discussing is:
1. Official tells thrower not to move.
2. Thrower doesn't keep his pivot foot and moves within the prescribed limits.
3. Opposing coach complains.

That's not what we're discussing. We're saying that telling a player not to move is just as likely to perpetuate the rule myth as an official who calls traveling on a throw in. It's not a direct relationship between #1 and #3 above. It's a coach who has heard #1, maybe back when he was a player, and then believes it to his core (like a player or coach believing they get 2 steps without a travel).

[Travelling Man]

If the subset of amateur refs like "us" [on this web forum] cannot even agree on the correctness of the "don't move" admonition, then what on God's green earth makes us even think that we can influence the larger population of coaches, players, fans, and media as to the invalidity of the "don't move" admonishment? We cannot even get concensus amongst the 10 folks who are commenting on it via this web.
But as I said earlier---there is no competitive advantage gained in either case.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

That is not what we're discussing. We're saying that telling a player not to move is just as likely to perpetuate the rule myth as an official who calls traveling on a throw in. It's not a direct relationship between #1 and #3 above. It's a coach who has heard #1, maybe back when he was a player, and then believes it to his core (like a player or coach believing they get 2 steps without a travel).

Then you are missing my point all together. Because I do not believe that what we say quickly defines or perpetuates anything. It is that simple. And trying to suggest otherwise is not really listening to what I feel about this topic. If you feel differently then so be it, but not my point of view and nothing you are going to say is going to change that feeling based off of my extensive experience with this or other issues in the rules. I have been doing this for some times and I feel most of the time players and coaches could give a damn what we say, especially when they argue when we tell them actual rules in other situations. I have given coaches T's much more over things where actual rules were explained in rather detail then two words that no one but one or two people may or may not hear.

IN MY OPINION is not my responsibility to teach a coach something that they could read in the rulebook. Maybe this does not happen in your state, but they give coaches rulebooks and casebooks at the state level (or at least they once did). So any issue they can read for themselves and find out what is actually listed. But if they actually pick one up and read it is another story. It is a running joke in our state that with Rules Meetings (now on video) that used to be attended in person and required for all schools to have a representative watch the meeting and the content discussed. It is well known that the school would send a low-level coach (often said the Freshman B coach) to those meetings or to watch the video and the varsity coaches would have no idea what was actually discussed or the content of the material even mentioned. So when POEs about slapping the back board were emphasized some years back as an example, coaches would want a T for slapping the backboard no matter how legitimate a block attempt was or would complain that we should call a GT for the slapping of the backboard as well. And that would be the first week of the season when a coach would go off about a rule that not only was discussed, but discussed much of the meeting and the rule discussed in detail. So now all of a sudden two words means so much that they not assume something based off of those words, but cannot comprehend a rule that was gone on in detail. My state has said over and over and over again that "Two hands on the ball handler is a foul." But the minute you call that handcheck, you get an argument. STOP GIVING THESE COACHES THAT MUCH CREDIT!!! I also say somethings on the first of multiple FTs "Relax guys on the first one." I will never forget someone tried to tell me that "You should not tell them that, coaches do not want them to relax." Well I have yet in all my years to have a single coach get upset with me about me saying that to convey the message that the ball is not live. And I have said in on purpose waiting for that time to come, I am still waiting. I guess I will be waiting for a coach to get upset if I happened to say, "Don't move."

Peace