Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game ...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The recent thread on rules regarding the jump ball to start the game has given me an idea for an article for our local board's newsletter. The working title is, "Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game".

I want concentrate on things that officials often, or sometimes, say during a game that do not have any basis in the rules.

Examples may include:

"Everybody get behind the division line" (during a free throw for a technical, or intentional, foul).
"Don't move" (before a designated spot throwin).
"Hold your spots" (before the jump ball to start the game, or an overtime).
"You have to take out your earrings" (instead of "You can't play with earrings").
"Let it hit the rim" (before a free throw).
"You can't stand behind him" (before a the jump ball to start the game, or an overtime, to a player who is directly behind an opponent, who are both ten feet off the circle).
"Sit down" (to a coach who has not been charged with a technical foul).

I really don't want to get into a debate regarding whether, or not, we should be saying things like this in a game for the purpose of preventative officiating, I just want those officials who are saying things like this to know that there is no basis in the rules for these statements, with a short explanation of why these statements are incorrect.

Anything to add to the list?

I disagree with you that these have no rules basis or that they cannot be used. We are not giving rules clinics. We have every right to convey a message even if that message is somewhat incomplete. It is the player's and coach's job to know the rules we are talking to them about. If they do not understand the nuance, shame on them.

Peace

[Travelling Man]

Well this thread began with the author's benign and well-intentioned attempt to "dispel" some misconceptions of officiating that ostensibly were either unsupported by formal nfhs doctrine or had beomce so ingrained in officiating parlance that the author thought they ought be addressed--at least in a cursory manner via this forum. But inevitably, as seems to be the pattern amongst the writers on this forum, this issue is morphing into another esoteric debate.
For the record, it's clear to me that all of the points that were said "should not be done" will continue to be frequently done--not because of malevolent intent or ignorance--but rather because they are simply not worth changing. Thus, we can make a list of 99 such items, but they will continue to be practiced.

[JRutledge]

No one term is going to sentence is going to convey every rule or every facet of a rule. That is why I take issue with why some of these things cannot be said in the first place. We tell players and coaches what they need to know to apply the rule. That is different from saying "On the floor" when we are conveying why we made a call. Telling a player "You cannot move" on a designated throw-in only tells them what they often expect they can do. I get asked often on a throw-in by a player, "Can I move?" I think we are often telling them what they think they can or cannot do and preventing a silly violation. I do not think it is that big of a deal.

Peace

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

*If I could add to your List:

1. After the timeout has expired and the horn has sounded to resume play, some refs shout to the benches "let's play ball" or "break up the huddle".
Is it really part of our job to "usher" the teams back on court by shouting such or blowing our whistle several times to make them resume play?
Lately, I have begun to just stand by the ball at the point of inbounding and slowly and dramatically starting a 5-second count. Usually a player sees this and runs out to inbound it.
So, that's what I add to your List: "Refs should not be ushering the play to resume when there are horns and assistant coaches to fulfill this function--it's not our job", correct?

Wrong.

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

*In this current society of gay/lesbo permissiveness---I guess saying "get a room" to two men [or women] whom inadvertently wound up laying on top of each in pursuit of a "loose ball other could be percieved as either an attempt at "comedy" or a statement of "levity". But what the heck..lol anyway.

Wrong again.

Read more, post less for now.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by zm1283

wrong.



Wrong again.

Read more, post less for now.

+1

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I get asked often on a throw-in by a player, "Can I move?"

My two possible answers, "Designated spot", or, "You have the whole line", either accompanied by the appropriate signal. Both statements are 100% correct by rule. "You can't move" is never 100% correct by rule.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

My two possible answers, "Designated spot", or, "You have the whole line", either accompanied by the appropriate signal. Both statements are 100% correct by rule. "You can't move" is never 100% correct by rule.

I tell players they can back up.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We're what you call experts and we should be using the correct terminology. And many of these, with the possible exception of the earrings, are not factually based on the rules.

Yes we are experts, but we are not talking to experts.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

With the exception of the earrings statement, I never said what officials should be saying, I just said that we shouldn't be saying these. Sometimes silence may be the best statement.

So you are silent when you see them in the lay-up line and then when the first time they come out with earrings or tape over their ears you say nothing until everyone notices? Now you have sent a player off the court that cannot play until the issue is taken care of and then you involved the coach for the first time. This again is about communication. If you say nothing they might make a scene. And this is not usually a 2 second conversation either. I also did not say that this is all you say.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

My two possible answers, "Designated spot", or, "You have the whole line", either accompanied by the appropriate signal. Both statements are 100% correct by rule. "You can't move" is never 100% correct by rule.

Most players have no idea what you mean when you say "Designated spot" or what that means they can or cannot do. So saying that and expecting them to know is silly to me. Sorry, but that is beyond silly. Now I say to a player that can move around the end line, "You can run the endline" as that is how they know move along the end line and usually how they ask a question about their ability to do so. Saying "Anywhere along the line" is silly to me when we are trying to communicate to them.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So you are silent when you see them in the lay-up line and then when the first time they come out with earrings or tape over their ears you say nothing until everyone notices?

I never said that. This is what I said:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

"You have to take out your earrings" (instead of "You can't play with earrings").

So when a player passes by me, in the layup line, with earrings, I say ""You can't play with earrings". I'm not telling them that they have to take off the earrings, I'm just telling them that they can't play with the earrings. After that, I don't care what they do, but they're not playing with earrings. This is a long time local "mechanic" based on some liability issues, and I have no problem if others state this directive differently, i.e., "You have to take out your earrings".

This was the only statement on my list where I indicated a better statement. I purposely did not suggest better statements for the others.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Most players have no idea what you mean when you say "Designated spot" or what that means they can or cannot do.

Agree 100%. However, they do know what, "Don't move", means, and that statement is not factually correct based on the rules. They can move either, or both, feet anywhere within the three foot wide designated area. They can move one foot to the left side, or to the right side, of the three foot wide designated area, as long as they keep one foot in the three foot wide designated area. And they can move as far back as they can, taking as many steps as they want to, in the five second time limit. Spin that anyway you want to, but that's moving, so why would anyone, not necessarily you, tell a player that they can't move on a designated spot throwin?

"Hey Mr. BillyMac, you told me not to move on my throwin a few plays ago, so why did my opponent get to move a few feet on a that last throwin? Why didn't you blow your whistle?

Also, I had to T up a coach this past year because he wouldn't stop complaining to my partner, who, as the administering official, let a player "move" on a designated spot throwin. The coach kept saying, "But he can't move". My partner tried, and I tried, to explain the movement limitations on a designated spot throwin, but he wouldn't accept any of that, he just kept saying, "But he can't move". Eventually, I had to tell him to, "Sit down".

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The coach kept saying, "But he can't move". My partner tried, and I tried, to explain the movement limitations on a designated spot throwin, but he wouldn't accept any of that, he just kept saying, "But he can't move". Eventually, I had to tell him to, "Sit down".

Just think, if you would have teed him up, you could have told him to "Sit down" and also "Now you can't move".

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree 100%. However, they do know what, "Don't move", means, and that statement is not factually correct based on the rules. They can move either, or both, feet anywhere within the three foot wide designated area. They can move one foot to the left side, or to the right side, of the three foot wide designated area, as long as they keep one foot in OR OVER the three foot wide designated area. And they can move as far back as they can, taking as many steps as they want to, in the five second time limit. Spin that anyway you want to, but that's moving, so why would anyone, not necessarily you, tell a player that they can't move on a designated spot throwin?

Fixed it for ya...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Most players have no idea what you mean when you say "Designated spot" or what that means they can or cannot do. So saying that and expecting them to know is silly to me. Sorry, but that is beyond silly. Now I say to a player that can move around the end line, "You can run the endline" as that is how they know move along the end line and usually how they ask a question about their ability to do so. Saying "Anywhere along the line" is silly to me when we are trying to communicate to them.

Another thread:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Maybe it's overkill, but our local interpreter has instructed us to indicate, "That's your spot", accompanied by pointing to the spot, or, "You can move" (Option: "You've got the whole line"), accompanied by a sweeping motion of the arm while pointing, on all backcourt endline throwins, and only backcourt endline throwins. Some will criticize that it's excess verbiage, and signalage, and not necessary, that the kids should already know this, but at least the statements agree with the actual rules. I believe that IAABO mechanics also require this, but I may be mistaken.

Originally Posted by Rob1968

NFHS Officials Manual, 2.2 PUTTING THE BALL IN PLAY 2.2.2 C End Line 5. states ; "When the clock is stopped, use the proper verbal and visual signal to indicate whether a spot throw-in or running the end line privileges are in effect." - Signal 26 = Spot Throw-in, Signal 23 = Run End Line.

[Travelling Man]

I wonder where the notion of admonishing players to "stay behind the half ct line during tech shots" originated? Must've had a logical origin--maybe to prevent aggressive behavior between opponents or shooter and the player that fouled.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

Issue is morphing into another esoteric debate.

That's how we roll here. Get used to it.