Jump Ball - Movement Prior to Touch

[Travelling Man]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

The "esoteric" characterization of this issue becomes moot when one reads the NFHS Officials Manual, 2.2.1 B and notes the adsence of any direction to give such instruction to the players, and/or one's Assignor/Evaluator gives instruction/direction to do otherwise.

*Perhaps you ought to look up the definition of "esoteric". By doing so you will come to understand the context of my post.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

*Perhaps you ought to look up the definition of "esoteric". By doing so you will come to understand the context of my post.

Wow . . . the universal availability of instruction in the manuals, and directions from supervisors/evaluators regarding their expectations remove any esoteric values from such subjects.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Rule 2-7-1

Bob, I've not equated "2-7-1. . . Notifying the captains when play is about to begin at the start of the game.", with "asking for the speaking captain(s)." since one subject deals with the R speaking to the captain(s) while the other seems to be a determination of which player(s) may speak to the officials.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

The percentage of NFHS officials who say this is nowhere near 99.9%. It might be close to 9%.

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

You've under-estimated the number of NFHS officials who instruct players to "not move" during the initial jump ball.

Sounds like a great topic for a poll. That would really piss off Jurassic Referee.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Bob, I've not equated "2-7-1. . . Notifying the captains when play is about to begin at the start of the game.", with "asking for the speaking captain(s)." Since one subject deals with the R speaking to the captain(s) while the other seems to be a determination of which player(s) may speak to the officials.

Keeping in mind that I do not ask for "speaking" captains, according to the NFHS rulebook, there is only one captain on a team, who gets certain rights, and privileges (like getting to date the hottest cheerleader).

I, and many of my local colleagues, chose to ignore 3-1-1 (Each team consists of five players, one of whom is the captain), and will talk to any player who approaches us politely, and we'll notify any of the captains when we're ready to start the game, and will even notify a noncaptain if a captain isn't starting.

But to literally follow the NFHS rulebook, there is one, and only one, captain on each team, and that one captain is the captain that must be notified that the game is about to start.

(Note: When was the last time we had a Walt Whitman reference on the Basketball Forum?)

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... and we'll notify any of the captains when we're ready to start the game, and will even notify a noncaptain if a captain isn't starting.

But to literally follow the NFHS rulebook, there is one, and only one, captain on each team, and that one captain is the captain that must be notified that the game is about to start.
...

I get a thumbs up from my partner(s). Then I blow my whistle which notifies all players, not just captains, that we are getting ready to start. I've never once in my entire career notified a captain that the game is about to start.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Bob, I've not equated "2-7-1. . .

You should.

Or use 3-1-1 so you know who can address you if the situation is such that you don't want to talk to someone else.

And, I do ask the captains if their teams are ready in 90% of the (regular season) game in which I toss.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

*No, it is not like "back-pedaling". Backpedaling is something officials do to "themselves"; whereas arranging players for the jump ball and admonishing them to "be still" is something that officials do to "others".

You've under-estimated the number of nfhs officials who instruct players to "not move" during the initial jump ball--as evidenced by the mere fact that this issue /thread was started by an nfhs official indicates that even amongst this self-selected group of specialists there exists considerable variation in the practice of this esoteric issue. Perhaps you yourself comprise that 0.1% wh allow players to move about during the initial jump ball. But as I said, this is really an esoteric issue in officiating--there are other more pressing concerns [no pun intended].

It is the same, because they're both wrong. In my experience, they're both rookie mistakes (although backpedalingi s normally purged sooner). Neither is done to anyone else. It doesn't affect me when someone else does either, so I'm nto sure what you mean by "to others."

I don't think I'm underestimating anything. There is no way 99% of state certified officials are doing this. None. When I see it, it's either by non-state certified offificials, or newly certified.

Your use of this thread as evidence that the problem is more pervasive is invalid, to be honest. Threads start here all the time over rare, but annoying, habits of partners. My number may be low, but it's not nearly as low as yours is high.

And you're right, there are far more important items to discuss. The glorious thing about the internet, though, is we get to discuss them all.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I blow my whistle which notifies all players, not just captains, that we are getting ready to start. I've never once in my entire career notified a captain that the game is about to start.

Are you copying me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I do ask the captains if their teams are ready in 90% of the (regular season) game in which I toss.

I don't notify just the captains (see post #54), and certainly not just the "speaking" captains (because I don't know who they are), but in the spirit of "When in Rome ...", I have no problem with your mechanic. But I'm curious. Why not 100%? What about the other 10%?

[bd41flpk]

Thanks much for the history of this question and the correct interpretation of what the true 'rule' is as far as movement on and off the circle prior to the ball being 'touched' by the jumpers.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I don't notify just the captains (see post #54), and certainly not just the "speaking" captains (because I don't know who they are), but in the spirit of "When in Rome ...", I have no problem with your mechanic. But I'm curious. Why not 100%? What about the other 10%?

One of the captains don't start or we stat with other than a jump ball (and I recognize the rule doesn't make an exception for that).

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Are you copying me.

I really doubt it.