Is 360 Spin move legal?

[potato]

i watched this video about ending dribbles, it mentioned about typical NBA 360 spin after dribble as illegal travel unless both feet lands the same time after the spin.

Travel or Not Part 5: Ending a Dribble - YouTube



skip to 2:20

the rule states the dribble ends when the ball is resting on the hand, so do we consider the dribble has ended the moment the player initiates a spin, or we can argue that the ball hasn't rested on the hand and only rested when the player take his 1st foot out for the spin and established a pivot foot and another step on the non pivot foot to complete a 360 spin?

From the video we can see he pretty much held the ball with the wrist but what if it was just on the hand like a dribble spin?

[APG]

Legal under what rule set?

[bob jenkins]

I did not watch the video, and I don't know any "special" NBA rules, but at other levels the same travel rules apply -- determine when the dribble ends, find the pivot foot, see if it touches the ground again (in other than the legal jump stop).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by potato

The rule says dribble ends when ball is resting on hand, in the video it was his left foot as he carried the ball with his right hand+wrist.

How about if he didn't carry with his hand/wrist but ball was on his right hand like a normal spin dribble move while on his left foot, and holds the ball after he moved his right foot, would the right be the pivot or it is determined by the foot that is on the floor as long as there is no more dribble even if the ball hasn't rested while on the hand?

the question is more about when he established the pivot foot assuming he wasn't carrying while on his left foot.

another scenario would be a normal dribble, so the player has his left foot on the floor, ball is in contact with his right hand but not holding/palming just normal dribble motion and while stepping on his right foot he decides to hold the ball with both hands, in this case would the initial left foot be his pivot or right foot?

Here is your answers, always:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I did not watch the video, and I don't know any "special" NBA rules, but at other levels the same travel rules apply -- determine when the dribble ends, find the pivot foot, see if it touches the ground again (in other than the legal jump stop).

[potato]

may i know how to determine if a dribble has ended.

it's easy if the guy simply picks up the ball immediately after a dribble bounce, but some advance guards like to keep the ball alive as in not Holding or Palming the ball but hand in contact with the ball in normal dribble motion and when there's an opening holds the ball last second pass/shoots. So would the pivot foot be achieved the moment the ball touches the player's hand or the moment the player holds the ball?

or do you see the foot on the floor the moment the player's hand is in contact with the ball should there be no further dribbling as the moment the dribble has ended irregardless how the hand is in contact with the ball (whether it's holding/palming or dribble motion)?

Originally Posted by Adam

Here is your answers, always:

[APG]

You still haven't answered what rule set you're looking for an answer for. I think you're looking for FIBA rules, but if you're not, you need to specify

Generally, the dribble ends when the dribbler touches it with both hand simultaneously or allows the ball comes to rest in one or both hands.

At this point you're going to have to determine the pivot foot. If the official determines the dribble ends and the player has one foot is on the floor, that foot becomes the pivot foot once the other touches the floor. If he ends the dribble with both feet in the air, it'll depends. If he lands simultaneously on both feet, then either foot can becomes the pivot foot. If they don't land simultaneously, then the first foot that lands on the ground will be the pivot foot after the other foot touches the floor.

Those are the situation from which you can end the dribble and establish a pivot foot. There are scenarios, that involve the a jump stop (also known as a pro hop for which I think you asked about when you first posted here) where the player would not be able to pivot afterward.

Now I'm pretty sure FIBA rules with establishing the pivot foot are the same as NFHS (high school) and NCAA rules. These situations would play out different under NBA rules, so when you mention an NBA spin move, know that there are moves that are legal under NBA rules that are by rule violations under different rule sets.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by potato

may i know how to determine if a dribble has ended.

By learning to officiate.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by potato

i watched this video about ending dribbles, it mentioned about typical NBA 360 spin after dribble as illegal travel unless both feet lands the same time after the spin.

Travel or Not Part 5: Ending a Dribble - YouTube

skip to 2:20

the rule states the dribble ends when the ball is resting on the hand, so do we consider the dribble has ended the moment the player initiates a spin, or we can argue that the ball hasn't rested on the hand and only rested when the player take his 1st foot out for the spin and established a pivot foot and another step on the non pivot foot to complete a 360 spin?

From the video we can see he pretty much held the ball with the wrist but what if it was just on the hand like a dribble spin?

It is illegal to lift and replant your pivot foot. It is illegal to lift your pivot before releasing the ball for a dribble. Stick to that without all the abstract "what ifs".

I have no idea what an "NBA 360 spin" move is.

The guy in the video does an excellent job describing what is and isn't legal in regards to jumpstops.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by potato

From the video we can see he pretty much held the ball with the wrist but what if it was just on the hand like a dribble spin?

EDITED

The move he starts at 2:20 isn't. His hand is underneath the ball when he starts the spin, meaning the dribble has ended. At that point his pivot foot - the left - is still on the floor. He takes a step onto his other foot then his left foot comes down again.

If he'd landed on both feet at the same time then the move would've been legal. The only foot movement allowed after that would've been to jump to either shoot or pass the ball.

[APG]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

The move he starts at 2:20 isn't. His hand is underneath the ball when he starts the spin, meaning the dribble has ended. At that point his pivot foot - the right - is still on the floor. He takes a step onto his other foot then his right foot comes down again.

If he'd landed on both feet at the same time then the move would've been legal. The only foot movement allowed after that would've been to jump to either shoot or pass the ball.

I don't think you were looking at the correct play. He ends the dribble with his left foot on the floor...jumps off that foot and lands on both feet.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by APG

I don't think you were looking at the correct play. He ends the dribble with his left foot on the floor...jumps off that foot and lands on both feet.

Might be the case. I was looking at the play immediately after the 2:20 mark.

[APG]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Might be the case. I was looking at the play immediately after the 2:20 mark.

There isn't a single play after the 2:20 mark where the dribble ends with the right foot on the floor.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by APG

There isn't a single play after the 2:20 mark where the dribble ends with the right foot on the floor.

Ahh...that would be because I can't tell my left from my right

All those legs look the same once they start spinning around

At any rate, my feelings hold from my first post just with the legs reversed. I edited my original post.

[potato]

The rule says dribble ends when ball is resting on hand, in the video it was his left foot as he carried the ball with his right hand+wrist.

How about if he didn't carry with his hand/wrist but ball was on his right hand like a normal spin dribble move while on his left foot, and holds the ball after he moved his right foot, would the right be the pivot or it is determined by the foot that is on the floor as long as there is no more dribble even if the ball hasn't rested while on the hand?

the question is more about when he established the pivot foot assuming he wasn't carrying while on his left foot.

another scenario would be a normal dribble, so the player has his left foot on the floor, ball is in contact with his right hand but not holding/palming just normal dribble motion and while stepping on his right foot he decides to hold the ball with both hands, in this case would the initial left foot be his pivot or right foot?

Originally Posted by APG

I don't think you were looking at the correct play. He ends the dribble with his left foot on the floor...jumps off that foot and lands on both feet.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by potato

The rule says dribble ends when ball is resting on hand, in the video it was his left foot as he carried the ball with his right hand+wrist.

How about if he didn't carry with his hand/wrist but ball was on his right hand like a normal spin dribble move while on his left foot, and holds the ball after he moved his right foot, would the right be the pivot or it is determined by the foot that is on the floor as long as there is no more dribble even if the ball hasn't rested while on the hand?

the question is more about when he established the pivot foot assuming he wasn't carrying while on his left foot.

another scenario would be a normal dribble, so the player has his left foot on the floor, ball is in contact with his right hand but not holding/palming just normal dribble motion and while stepping on his right foot he decides to hold the ball with both hands, in this case would the initial left foot be his pivot or right foot?

Again, too many abstract "what ifs" for me. Find his pivot and referee the play.