Violation for Voluntarily Running Out of Bounds

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do agree. I just think that is not technically how it is interpreted. But then again I could be wrong.

Peace

To me, this rule only applies if a player is completely OOB with both feet. I could be wrong, but that's how the rule reads to me. It's obviously how most of us apply it, though.

[Reffing Rev.]

I was T in 3-whistle during a free throw. B player was talking to his coach near the sideline, after the rebound he ran out of bounds under the basket (in the blue paint out of bounds) and popped back in to receive a long pass for an easy basket. I called the violation, from about 20' from the baseline as soon as he received the pass. Coach says, "you couldn't see that from that far away." I told him both feet were in the blue, and coach said, "not when he caught the ball."

After the game the AD told me that both coaches think I was making up a rule. In the 3 years since I have not had any phone calls for these schools. Prior to that day I did a varsity dh for each and a handful of jv games each. That is what you get when all the coach has to do is push play on an internet video and come back in 45 minutes and click, "yes I watched the video."

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do agree. I just think that is not technically how it is interpreted. But then again I could be wrong.

Peace

I do remember a conversation at a scrimmage style clinic several years ago... after one of us called that for a player simply stepping on the line coming down from a failed attempt at a rebound (player landed on the line and to catch himself took a step out of bounds before recovering his momentum)... According to the reaming this guy took for that call, inadvertently going OOB during action is NOT what this rule is about. This rule is about players, of their own volition, going out of bounds on purpose for whatever reason (usually, as mentioned above, to avoid a screen or to avoid a 3-second call). Simply stepping on the line is nothing.

[bainsey]

I have this about once per year. Once, in a youth game, I had a double violation.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm just curious, did you call it that often when it was penalized by a technical foul?

If my memory is correct, the technical foul was for egregious situations in which a player left the court to deceive the opponents. The NFHS made a statement only a few years ago about the game needing to be played within the boundaries of the playing court, which strengthened the language on this and instructed the officials to be stricter about enforcing it. It was also either just before or just after this that the penalty was changed from a T to a violation.
So, no, I did not make this call nearly as frequently when the penalty was a T, but unless my memory is incorrect, the standard for the call was also significantly different back then.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

On more than one occassion in several games this past season, I've verbally told players to stay on the court as they ran the baseline (avoiding screens).

You shouldn't be instructing the players. That's not your role.
If the act is severe enough, then you should be penalizing it, not talking about it.
If it isn't severe enough to warrant a penalty, then you shouldn't say anything.

Save the preventative officiating for situations in which two opposing players are involved and their conduct is borderline. Preventative officiating was not intended to be an excuse for not properly calling fouls and violations. How many times can John Adams say, "make the call and the players and coaches will adjust?"

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

I was T in 3-whistle during a free throw. B player was talking to his coach near the sideline, after the rebound he ran out of bounds under the basket (in the blue paint out of bounds) and popped back in to receive a long pass for an easy basket. I called the violation, from about 20' from the baseline as soon as he received the pass. Coach says, "you couldn't see that from that far away." I told him both feet were in the blue, and coach said, "not when he caught the ball."

After the game the AD told me that both coaches think I was making up a rule. In the 3 years since I have not had any phone calls for these schools. Prior to that day I did a varsity dh for each and a handful of jv games each. That is what you get when all the coach has to do is push play on an internet video and come back in 45 minutes and click, "yes I watched the video."

The problem isn't with the coaches lack of rules knowledge or being able to skirt watching a video, it lies with how your area handling officials getting games. Anytime that the coaches have a say in who officiates, the integrity of the game is compromised.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

...Save the preventative officiating for situations in which two opposing players are involved and their conduct is borderline. Preventative officiating was not intended to be an excuse for not properly calling fouls and violations. How many times can John Adams say, "make the call and the players and coaches will adjust?"

He doesn't say that, that was Hank Nichols.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You shouldn't be instructing the players. That's not your role.
If the act is severe enough, then you should be penalizing it, not talking about it.
If it isn't severe enough to warrant a penalty, then you shouldn't say anything.

Save the preventative officiating for situations in which two opposing players are involved and their conduct is borderline. Preventative officiating was not intended to be an excuse for not properly calling fouls and violations. How many times can John Adams say, "make the call and the players and coaches will adjust?"

Well, most people don't answer to John Adams, I know I don't. As much as I may or may not agree with him, it doesn't matter. I can tell you, if I made this particular call and it wasn't either a) egregious (like rocky's situation) or b) a repeated offense after a warning, I'll have some 'splainin' to do.

The same as a 3 second call, IMO ("45, keep moving"). For that matter, it's similar to the coaching box ("Coach, I need you back in the coaching box") and slightly mouthy assistant coaches. The fact is, some local leadership structures want these things warned, if possible, before penalized.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If my memory is correct, the technical foul was for egregious situations in which a player left the court to deceive the opponents. The NFHS made a statement only a few years ago about the game needing to be played within the boundaries of the playing court, which strengthened the language on this and instructed the officials to be stricter about enforcing it. It was also either just before or just after this that the penalty was changed from a T to a violation.
So, no, I did not make this call nearly as frequently when the penalty was a T, but unless my memory is incorrect, the standard for the call was also significantly different back then.

I'll have to see if I can find my old books in the basement (no attic in this household), but I remembered the change being simply a move to rule 9 from rule 10. You may be right, though.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You shouldn't be instructing the players. That's not your role.
If the act is severe enough, then you should be penalizing it, not talking about it.
If it isn't severe enough to warrant a penalty, then you shouldn't say anything.

Save the preventative officiating for situations in which two opposing players are involved and their conduct is borderline. Preventative officiating was not intended to be an excuse for not properly calling fouls and violations. How many times can John Adams say, "make the call and the players and coaches will adjust?"

My style has increasingly leaned toward a preventive style of officiating the last few years. When I'm lead, and I see A2 starting to set a screen and it's obvious that A3 is going to run off his shoulder along the endline, I'll sometimes say "stay inbounds, stay inbounds" as he's cutting through while he's still inbounds. It's a little thing, but it's just another way to stay focused and alert to plays and keep kids out of trouble. I know that isn't everyone's philosophy or style, but it works really well for me.

[JetMetFan]

Found it online. It was changed/added for the 05-06 season:

In an effort to increase the likelihood of the infraction being called to eliminate a tremendous advantage, Rule 9-3-2 was ADDED. The rule states that players leaving the court for unauthorized reasons will be charged with a violation INSTEAD of a technical foul, which was the former penalty. The rules committee felt that the rule change would not only make the action easier to enforce, but will more likely serve as a deterrent against players leaving the court.

9-3-2 The penalty for a player leaving the court for an unauthorized reason (voluntarily) or delaying his/her return to the court after a throw-in is NOW a violation.

PLAY 1: A-1 steps out of bounds to avoid a 3 second violation.

Ruling: A-1 has committed a violation. The ball shall be awarded to Team B for a throw-in at a designated spot (NOT between the free throw lane lines) nearest to where the violation was committed.

PLAY 2: Thrower-in A-1 completes the throw-in to A-2 and then takes four or five steps along the boundary line prior to coming inbounds behind a screen set by A-3 and A-4.

Ruling: A-1 has committed a violation for failing to move DIRECTLY onto the court after the release of the ball. The violation ruling is NOT to be delayed until A-1 returns to the court. It is ruled a violation WHEN the delay OCCURS.

Remaining off the court or NOT going onto the court directly is similar to leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. In THIS case it should be obvious that A-1's movement, out of bounds, along the end line was to take advantage of the screen.

NOTE: The violation DOES NOT occur when the player returns to the court and touches the ball. It occurs when the delay occurs.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Found it online. It was changed/added for the 05-06 season:

So according to this, the rule was the same before, only penalized by a technical foul. I need to go back and see if I can find the 04-05 books now. Thanks, this should help narrow down my basement search.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Found it online. It was changed/added for the 05-06 season:

QUOTE: "PLAY 2: Thrower-in A-1 completes the throw-in to A-2 and then takes four or five steps along the boundary line prior to coming inbounds behind a screen set by A-3 and A-4.

Ruling: A-1 has committed a violation for failing to move DIRECTLY onto the court after the release of the ball. The violation ruling is NOT to be delayed until A-1 returns to the court. It is ruled a violation WHEN the delay OCCURS.

Remaining off the court or NOT going onto the court directly is similar to leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. In THIS case it should be obvious that A-1's movement, out of bounds, along the end line was to take advantage of the screen. "

Curiously, this Case Play is stated in Case Book 10.3.2 as penalized by a T.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

So according to this, the rule was the same before, only penalized by a technical foul. I need to go back and see if I can find the 04-05 books now. Thanks, this should help narrow down my basement search.

That is correct. Only the penalty changed, not the rule.