travel violations

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

...
Lastly, you never know who you are talking to, what their intentions are by starting a conversation, they might even have someone filming you for their youtube page.

Last year, while in a camp, we had a coach who was very chatty and being a PIA. At halftime we found out from our observers that the coach was miked up for some kind of endeavor.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

In the OP, the official heard the comment and replied in a negative way.

Exactly... if the official heard it and replied in a negative way, then it was not just a comment.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

In the OP, the official heard the comment and replied in a negative way.

In my Jim Rome voice: "Allegedly"

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

IF the OP made the comment in the way he actually stated during the game, it is on the official to stay professional and not engage fans. Just because someone makes a comment or asks a question does not mean that an official needs to pay attention to it. I would hardly call the initial comment as a nuisance.

You have lost your mind. No one worth any salt is paying attention to some fan. And certainly not paying attention to any fan in the stands. Fans do not hire us, supervise us or will have much say in the future.

Peace

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm on my own time after the game is over. As I stated in another post, the preponderance of these converstations are not pleasant. And since I'm on my own time I choose not to engage in these conversations. Adam puts it perfectly:

Fair enough. I guess I see it a little differently. Our association requires us to show up dressed appropriately (no jeans, tie or jacket, etc), report in, officiate, change and leave dressed appropriately. I guess I'm thinking of the entire time "on campus/school grounds" as work time. But I totally understand not wanting to talk work/officiating after work/officiating has ended.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Fair enough. I guess I see it a little differently. Our association requires us to show up dressed appropriately (no jeans, tie or jacket, etc), report in, officiate, change and leave dressed appropriately. I guess I'm thinking of the entire time "on campus/school grounds" as work time. But I totally understand not wanting to talk work/officiating after work/officiating has ended.

The games I work that require a dress code we never have to deal with fans b/c game admin ensures we have a clear path to the dressing room.

The games that don't require a dress code...see previous posts

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Fair enough. I guess I see it a little differently. Our association requires us to show up dressed appropriately (no jeans, tie or jacket, etc), report in, officiate, change and leave dressed appropriately. I guess I'm thinking of the entire time "on campus/school grounds" as work time. But I totally understand not wanting to talk work/officiating after work/officiating has ended.

We're not talking about school games here. AAU/summer ball is typically worked differently. You don't get a dressing room, so you show up ready to go. I typically put on my stripes and change shoes at the table.

During the school season, you have game admin who, for part of their job, ensure fans don't disrupt you in any way. They are experienced at it (typically) and accountable to the conference and/or state if they fail. One reason to be even more cautious in AAU is that the game managers are either less experienced or less accountable (or both).

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Fair enough. I guess I see it a little differently. Our association requires us to show up dressed appropriately (no jeans, tie or jacket, etc), report in, officiate, change and leave dressed appropriately. I guess I'm thinking of the entire time "on campus/school grounds" as work time. But I totally understand not wanting to talk work/officiating after work/officiating has ended.

High school ball and AAU or tourney ball are two completely different things. But at HS, the OP is rendered moot - there's nearly zero chance of a fan coming down from the stands and trying to discuss a call with the officials between games.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Adam

1. If you're making enough of a nuisance to get my attention in an AAU game, you risk getting tossed.
2. A site director who refused to toss you for any reason wouldn't be getting officials from my association for long. Especially if his reason is, "the fan had a point." In this case, I'm probably tossing you for approaching me after the game combined with making a nuisance of yourself during the game.
3. If the first thing I hear is a polite approach between games, I'll engage. I'll tell you what I saw, but I'm not getting into a discussion, though. I'll tell you what I saw and what the rule is, but that's all.
4. Your description is of traveling, but the refs may have seen it differently.

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

Wow!

I don't participate in many conversations any more, but I like reading what everyone has to say.

Adam, you seem knowledgeable and reasonable most of the time, maybe I am not reading you correctly.

Possible, and quite possibly because I wasn't clear.

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

IF the OP made the comment in the way he actually stated during the game, it is on the official to stay professional and not engage fans. Just because someone makes a comment or asks a question does not mean that an official needs to pay attention to it. I would hardly call the initial comment as a nuisance.

Lots of "ifs" here, to be honest. Sure, it's on us to be professional, but the OP was clearly engaging with the intent of getting the officials' attention. Not just comments, but he wanted to make his point. Chances are there's more to the story.

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

Even in the AAU setting, just how are you going to eject someone without the backing of the gym supervisor. It is rare that these individuals will eject unless vulgar or confrontational in nature.

If I've had a fan rise to the level of getting my attention during the game with comments such as "that was a travel because...." (as opposed to, for example, "why wasn't that a travel"), and then proceeds to come talk to me after the game to tell me which calls I missed, it's very possible I'd request to have him removed. (I wouldn't do that in front of him, I'd simply talk to the site manager.)

If the site manager didn't comply, the assigner would be finding out before I even drove out of the parking lot. If the problem wasn't resolved to my satisfaction, I'd simply refuse to work those games. For the pay involved, it's not worth the headaches.

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

While I don't see a problem with trying to educate someone, once you open the door for a conversation, be professional. If a person does not want to accept your explanation, just end the conversation and move away. There are enough bad examples out there, don't become another one.

Agreed. If you do say anything, it should be polite. I should have noted earlier that the "snide remarks" mentioned by the OP should be avoided.

If fans are making comments that indicate a lack of rules knowledge, I'll laugh about it with my partner when we're out of earshot. Or, I'll just stand there and laugh, out loud, while watching the playing action. Or both.

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

Lastly, you never know who you are talking to, what their intentions are by starting a conversation, they might even have someone filming you for their youtube page.

All the more reason not to engage. At all. Frankly, my standard response is to politely direct them to the site manager.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Fair enough. I guess I see it a little differently. Our association requires us to show up dressed appropriately (no jeans, tie or jacket, etc), report in, officiate, change and leave dressed appropriately. I guess I'm thinking of the entire time "on campus/school grounds" as work time. But I totally understand not wanting to talk work/officiating after work/officiating has ended.

Not sure what this has to do with AAU games.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by upprdeck

Establishing a pivot foot doing multiple jab steps then starting their drives off in the other direction with the pivot foot leaving the floor before letting go the ball.

Travel. All day long. All night long. Travel in a boys high school varsity game. Travel in a Catholic middle school girls "junior varsity" game. Travel in a gymnasium. Travel on an outdoor playground court. Travel in my sleep. Travel when I'm awake. Travel in my dreams. If it happens in my primary coverage area, it's a travel 100% of the time, all the time, every time.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Travel. All day long. All night long. Travel in a boys high school varsity game. Travel in a Catholic middle school girls "junior varsity" game. Travel in a gymnasium. Travel on an outdoor playground court. Travel in my sleep. Travel when I'm awake. Travel in my dreams. If it happens in my primary coverage area, it's a travel 100% of the time, all the time, every time.

Agreed.

If it happened as the OP said.

[just another ref]

Perhaps Ncaa Traveling (Non) Calls Trickling Down?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Perhaps Ncaa Traveling (Non) Calls Trickling Down?

Perhaps a lot of AAU officials aren't well versed on travelling rules.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Perhaps a lot of AAU officials aren't well versed on travelling rules.

Or maybe they have been reading too many of JRut's posts!