travel violations

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Whether the calls were missed or not, as a fan, you shouldn't be engaging officials during games. And when a game is over you shouldn't be addressing officials period, as a fan or coach.

I'm going to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, BNR. He appears to be looking to learn, not be a smart-ass.

I agree, though, the second description is too vague. "He jumped off both feet in a whirl move..." then what?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I'm going to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, BNR. He appears to be looking to learn, not be a smart-ass.

I agree, though, the second description is too vague. "He jumped off both feet in a whirl move..." then what?

I don't think he's being a smart-a$$ at all, he has legitimate questions. But my opinion about engaging officials applies to all.

Nice or not, I don't want fans trying to engage me about plays while I'm officiating. I when I leave the court I don't anybody, fan/player/coach, approaching me about a game I officiated.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I don't think he's being a smart-a$$ at all, he has legitimate questions. But my opinion about engaging officials applies to all.

Nice or not, I don't want fans trying to engage me about plays while I'm officiating. I when I leave the court I don't anybody, fan/player/coach, approaching me about a game I officiated.

+1000

Peace

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I don't think he's being a smart-a$$ at all, he has legitimate questions. But my opinion about engaging officials applies to all.

Nice or not, I don't want fans trying to engage me about plays while I'm officiating. I when I leave the court I don't anybody, fan/player/coach, approaching me about a game I officiated.

I would respectfully disagree here. In game, or loudly in public I totally agree, but if someone wants to approach me politely and quietly after a game because they are trying to understand a rule, I think that's great. Too many fans/coaches think they know the rules and make no effort to correctly understand them. To dismiss those who do want to correctly understand them, in my opinion, does a disservice to other officials by fueling the stereotype that officials are arrogant and full of themselves.

My response to a spectator with a legitimate question after the game would be similar to my response to a coach during the game - short and polite. For example, "I don't remember that play in particular, but if it happened as you describe it, you would be correct". Or "If it happened like that, you would be correct, but I saw the play differently."

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I would respectfully disagree here. In game, or loudly in public I totally agree, but if someone wants to approach me politely and quietly after a game because they are trying to understand a rule, I think that's great. Too many fans/coaches think they know the rules and make no effort to correctly understand them. To dismiss those who do want to correctly understand them, in my opinion, does a disservice to other officials by fueling the stereotype that officials are arrogant and full of themselves.

My response to a spectator with a legitimate question after the game would be similar to my response to a coach during the game - short and polite. For example, "I don't remember that play in particular, but if it happened as you describe it, you would be correct". Or "If it happened like that, you would be correct, but I saw the play differently."

The problem is one of hope vs. experience. As Bob noted, 99% of the time, the intent isn't to learn but to berate (even subtly). To avoid the 99%, we lose out on the 1%. I'm ok with that.

I've been known to engage some fans, but my radar is up, and I wouldn't recommend it to officials without significant experience reading fans.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

...My response to a spectator with a legitimate question after the game would be similar to my response to a coach during the game - short and polite. For example, "I don't remember that play in particular, but if it happened as you describe it, you would be correct". Or "If it happened like that, you would be correct, but I saw the play differently."

I'm on my own time after the game is over. As I stated in another post, the preponderance of these converstations are not pleasant. And since I'm on my own time I choose not to engage in these conversations. Adam puts it perfectly:

Originally Posted by Adam

The problem is one of hope vs. experience. As Bob noted, 99% of the time, the intent isn't to learn but to berate (even subtly). To avoid the 99%, we lose out on the 1%. I'm ok with that.

I've been known to engage some fans, but my radar is up, and I wouldn't recommend it to officials without significant experience reading fans.

A fan is more likely to get a basketball conversation out of me if they happen upon me at a sports bar or restaurant.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm on my own time after the game is over. As I stated in another post, the preponderance of these converstations are not pleasant. And since I'm on my own time I choose not to engage in these conversations. Adam puts it perfectly:

Fair enough. I guess I see it a little differently. Our association requires us to show up dressed appropriately (no jeans, tie or jacket, etc), report in, officiate, change and leave dressed appropriately. I guess I'm thinking of the entire time "on campus/school grounds" as work time. But I totally understand not wanting to talk work/officiating after work/officiating has ended.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Fair enough. I guess I see it a little differently. Our association requires us to show up dressed appropriately (no jeans, tie or jacket, etc), report in, officiate, change and leave dressed appropriately. I guess I'm thinking of the entire time "on campus/school grounds" as work time. But I totally understand not wanting to talk work/officiating after work/officiating has ended.

The games I work that require a dress code we never have to deal with fans b/c game admin ensures we have a clear path to the dressing room.

The games that don't require a dress code...see previous posts

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Fair enough. I guess I see it a little differently. Our association requires us to show up dressed appropriately (no jeans, tie or jacket, etc), report in, officiate, change and leave dressed appropriately. I guess I'm thinking of the entire time "on campus/school grounds" as work time. But I totally understand not wanting to talk work/officiating after work/officiating has ended.

We're not talking about school games here. AAU/summer ball is typically worked differently. You don't get a dressing room, so you show up ready to go. I typically put on my stripes and change shoes at the table.

During the school season, you have game admin who, for part of their job, ensure fans don't disrupt you in any way. They are experienced at it (typically) and accountable to the conference and/or state if they fail. One reason to be even more cautious in AAU is that the game managers are either less experienced or less accountable (or both).

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Fair enough. I guess I see it a little differently. Our association requires us to show up dressed appropriately (no jeans, tie or jacket, etc), report in, officiate, change and leave dressed appropriately. I guess I'm thinking of the entire time "on campus/school grounds" as work time. But I totally understand not wanting to talk work/officiating after work/officiating has ended.

High school ball and AAU or tourney ball are two completely different things. But at HS, the OP is rendered moot - there's nearly zero chance of a fan coming down from the stands and trying to discuss a call with the officials between games.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Fair enough. I guess I see it a little differently. Our association requires us to show up dressed appropriately (no jeans, tie or jacket, etc), report in, officiate, change and leave dressed appropriately. I guess I'm thinking of the entire time "on campus/school grounds" as work time. But I totally understand not wanting to talk work/officiating after work/officiating has ended.

Not sure what this has to do with AAU games.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

My response to a spectator with a legitimate question after the game would be similar to my response to a coach during the game - short and polite. For example, "I don't remember that play in particular, but if it happened as you describe it, you would be correct". Or "If it happened like that, you would be correct, but I saw the play differently."

The big problem with this is that you don't ever really know if the spectator has "a legitimate question" and is trying to learn ... or if he is going to blow up when you tell him you saw it differently. (Especially a fan, as in the OP, who has already been so vocal that I had to notice him during the game!)