Michigan-Louisville travel? (1st half)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by APG

This is the type of play and post that Rich's thread was alluding to.

+100,000,000

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The pass was above or at the head of Burke and he like others put his hands up to make sure the ball does not hit him in the face and never actually catches the ball. Now that might not have happened here, but I have seen that so much that way I do not see this as a clear catch. And if he catches the ball, when did he actually catch the ball?

Rut, to quote one of your posts on another thread, stop it. I have to agree with Camron's take. If you wouldn't call a travel, that's fine. The way you're describing the situation, though, reminds me of Bill Clinton's "it depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is" line from the Lewinsky hearings.

I could slow the video down a little more but that would just take up time. Burke caught the ball. Again, if you wouldn't call a travel that's cool. You're not the only one. This really isn't one of those plays where we need to go over the act of catching the ball like it's the Zapruder film.

[Adam]

Wait, did he catch it on the grassy knoll under the library?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Rut, to quote one of your posts on another thread, stop it. I have to agree with Camron's take. If you wouldn't call a travel, that's fine. The way you're describing the situation, though, reminds me of Bill Clinton's "it depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is" line from the Lewinsky hearings.

I could slow the video down a little more but that would just take up time. Burke caught the ball. Again, if you wouldn't call a travel that's cool. You're not the only one. This really isn't one of those plays where we need to go over the act of catching the ball like it's the Zapruder film.

I honestly do not give a crap what take you agree with. I do not recall I am asking for approval on my position. I just think that this looked like a "bat the ball to the ground" play I see 100 times. And if it was so obvious, why would someone say it should not be called why saying it was "technically" a travel? I thought someone said you must call these "technical" travels? If that is the case, then please call this. Just do not complain when someone looks at you and says, WTF and thinks you have no judgment.

I am also a clinician in my state. Which means I am one of many that can run a camp and instructed on how to teach officials how to do their jobs. What often happens when I evaluate games when I am observing officials I often ask them, "What did you see?" Then when they tell me, I either evaluate based on what they say as well. Officials on the floor see different things than we see on these plays from a non-officiating position. I know many of you here think that because you see something on the tape that is obvious to you, but officials when asked give interesting explanations. And often their explanation is not far-fetched or even wrong, they just see plays differently because they did not rule these things in slow motion and with some standard that applies to your experience. And to me I would rather ask the official in question than people watching the game that want to make every thing nefarious as to why a play is called or not called from your thinking.

Peace

[peachbasket]

OMG, If you want to open a can of worms, then call that a travel. That is looking for trouble. Period.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

He clearly catches the ball with his right foot down and then steps to his left foot...making the right the pivot. The right foot is lifted and is almost down for the next step before the ball is released on a dribble. Those facts are pretty clear and the rule is pretty clear. By the book, travel....but NEVER called.

That's what happened. It's pretty easy to see if you're looking. I saw it and wasn't halfway looking.

This part is also becoming more and more obvious. I have still never heard an explanation about "technical travels" and which part of the rule we are expected to ignore. The good news is that it is consistently ignored, so hopefully it favors no one.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

That's what happened. It's pretty easy to see if you're looking. I saw it and wasn't halfway looking.

This part is also becoming more and more obvious. I have still never heard an explanation about "technical travels" and which part of the rule we are expected to ignore. The good news is that it is consistently ignored, so hopefully it favors no one.

This particular travel had zero affect on the play, so even if it was the only one of these all year anywhere, it didn't favor anyone.

As for how to figure out which part of the rule to ignore; it's not much different than 3 seconds, really. We get the stuff that's either egregious or advantageous. Knowing how those are defined is normally part of what separates marginal officials from high level officials.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by peachbasket

OMG, If you want to open a can of worms, then call that a travel. That is looking for trouble. Period.

I might call this in a middle school game if that player's coach has been b1tching about missed travels while winning by 20.

Otherwise....

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

....

I am also a clinician in my state. Which means I am one of many that can run a camp and instructed on how to teach officials how to do their jobs. What often happens when I evaluate games when I am observing officials I often ask them, "What did you see?" Then when they tell me, I either evaluate based on what they say as well. Officials on the floor see different things than we see on these plays from a non-officiating position. I know many of you here think that because you see something on the tape that is obvious to you, but officials when asked give interesting explanations. And often their explanation is not far-fetched or even wrong, they just see plays differently because they did not rule these things in slow motion and with some standard that applies to your experience. And to me I would rather ask the official in question than people watching the game that want to make every thing nefarious as to why a play is called or not called from your thinking.

Peace

Rut, becoming a clinician and running a camp is about as hard as getting a plumber's license (meaning: if you have a pulse, you can get certified as a clinician and be a plumber - on and off the court. )

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

About as hard as getting a plumber's license, if you have a pulse, you can get certified as a plumber.

I can't wait for Freddy to read this.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Adam

Wait, did he catch it on the grassy knoll under the library?

While Col Mustard was in the Library with a Candlestick

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

Rut, becoming a clinician and running a camp is about as hard as getting a plumber's license (meaning: if you have a pulse, you can get certified as a clinician and be a plumber - on and off the court. )

Actually becoming a clinician in our state is not easy as getting a license. A plumber or and insurance agent has to pass a test and then you have a license to work in that field. We have to be picked like someone picks you to work their games. One person picks the officials for the positions and he was a former D1 official and assigns high school and college, after the state approves the applications. I work both for that person BTW. Actually most camps are run by assignors of conferences for HS games and evaluation. The only run 2 camps. One I run in the fall for a class I developed for newer officials. The other I run with a clinician in another sport that we run for a statewide conference that is held by the IHSA. I am on the committee so I helped develop the curriculum that was asked for by the person over the Official's Department several years ago and we run a camp that gives newer officials the last opportunity for many to attend any level camp so they will get off of probation.

Many basketball camps are run by assignors, not clinician only like myself. Being a certified clinician mainly means you oversee the paper work for clinic credit and making sure that procedures are followed with the state in that sport. The state also will talk to us directly to get information out to teach mechanics and procedures the state wants covered at camps or to our associations. Like last year all clinicians had to attend a mandatory meeting and receive our clinician DVD with plays and situations the state wants addressed. I am on several camp staffs where I might oversee anything from schedules to fill in for someone that could not cover a court. Running camps are a little more than teaching officials. I wish that was often the only thing to do, but it is not. Many of the top camps involve State Final officials or college guys that are not clinician by the state, but have experience working and teaching officials and not going to tell people something totally off the wall. I was doing the same before I was officially accepted at that role. A little more than becoming a plumber.

Yes, fact do matter.

Peace

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually becoming a clinician in our state is not easy as getting a license. A plumber or and insurance agent has to pass a test and then you have a license to work in that field. We have to be picked like someone picks you to work their games. One person picks the officials for the positions and he was a former D1 official and assigns high school and college, after the state approves the applications. I work both for that person BTW. Actually most camps are run by assignors of conferences for HS games and evaluation. The only run 2 camps. One I run in the fall for a class I developed for newer officials. The other I run with a clinician in another sport that we run for a statewide conference that is held by the IHSA. I am on the committee so I helped develop the curriculum that was asked for by the person over the Official's Department several years ago and we run a camp that gives newer officials the last opportunity for many to attend any level camp so they will get off of probation.

Many basketball camps are run by assignors, not clinician only like myself. Being a certified clinician mainly means you oversee the paper work for clinic credit and making sure that procedures are followed with the state in that sport. The state also will talk to us directly to get information out to teach mechanics and procedures the state wants covered at camps or to our associations. Like last year all clinicians had to attend a mandatory meeting and receive our clinician DVD with plays and situations the state wants addressed. I am on several camp staffs where I might oversee anything from schedules to fill in for someone that could not cover a court. Running camps are a little more than teaching officials. I wish that was often the only thing to do, but it is not. Many of the top camps involve State Final officials or college guys that are not clinician by the state, but have experience working and teaching officials and not going to tell people something totally off the wall. I was doing the same before I was officially accepted at that role. A little more than becoming a plumber.

Yes, fact do matter.

Peace

My comment was meant as a joke. It probably came across differently.

I applaud anyone who works to make officials better and strives to help others reach new levels in their careers.

IHSA has 99 "clinicians" so again, it is not that exclusive and "being hand-picked" only means that someone is liked by the person in charge. It might have nothing to do with ability, but rather because you work with someone. As you said the work is "Mainly Handling Paperwork" which is not being a clinician. I would say that 98% of officials can handle paperwork, watch DVD's, and listen/read to the state mandates with little to no trouble at all.

Being a clinician is about giving meaningful guidance/instruction in a way that is useful, easily understood and put into use by those receiving it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

My comment was meant as a joke. It probably came across differently.

I applaud anyone who works to make officials better and strives to help others reach new levels in their careers.

IHSA has 99 "clinicians" so again, it is not that exclusive. As you said the work is "Mainly Handling Paperwork" which is not being a clinician. I would say that 98% of officials can handle paperwork, watch DVD's, and listen/read to the state mandates with little to no trouble at all.

Being a clinician is about giving meaningful guidance/instruction in a way that is useful, easily understood and put into use.

I believe it was Socrates that said "those who can, do - those that can't - teach"

And you think I was offended? Just making it straight there are a little more to doing things than people here like to make it out to be.

Peace

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And you think I was offended? Just making it straight there are a little more to doing things than people here like to make it out to be.

Peace

Agreed...