Illegal Screen/Technical video--your thoughts?

[REFANDUMP]

I agree that kicking and throwing things are unacceptable under any circumstances. I do not agree however, that we shouldn't allow a coach to vent a little when WE kick a call.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

I agree that kicking and throwing things are unacceptable under any circumstances. I do not agree however, that we shouldn't allow a coach to vent a little when WE kick a call.

99% of the time when the coach feels the need to "vent," it's because he thinks we kicked a call. We don't let him act like an idiot when we know the call was right, but he disagrees. Why should he get to act like an idiot when we think we might have kicked one. Or worse, why should he get to act like an idiot because we think our partner kicked one?

I might be a little more open to a question on a call I know was close or may have been kicked, but his standards of behavior remain the same. He can ask a question, and maybe get away with a few more quiet words than I'd put up with otherwise, but public displays of affection are going to get shut down just as quickly as if I was 100% sure of the call.

They're adults. As zebraman and rocky noted, they're quite capable of curbing their behavior when they know it's expected.

One thing that drives me nuts is the whole "it's a tense situation" excuse.

[ref3808]

I have no problem with the illegal screen ruling. I think the screener set his legs outside the allowable frame and there was a bit of a push there as well. Having said that, I've seen worse than that not ruled as illegal.

In any case, the coach simply doesn't get to act that way and disrespect the game and the officials. Not in a scrimmage, not in a regular season game and not in a playoff game. In my opinion officials hesitate far too often to take care of business when the coach's behavior is unacceptable. The coach is supposed to set the standard for his team. Is that the standard we want set?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ref3808

I have no problem with the illegal screen ruling. I think the screener set his legs outside the allowable frame and there was a bit of a push there as well. Having said that, I've seen worse than that not ruled as illegal.

That would all be great but the contact was with his torso, not his legs. It is not illegal to set up badly, it is illegal if that is where the contact takes place.

Peace

[REFANDUMP]

If you kick the call and you call the "T", it's your fault, not his !!! If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

If you kick the call and you call the "T", it's your fault, not his !!! If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

In this play there was no "kicked call". There's debate on whether or not it was a good call, but that doesn't make it a "kicked call". It was a judgment call. The coach doesn't get to act a fool b/c he doesn't agree with judgment.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

If you kick the call and you call the "T", it's your fault, not his !!! If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Says who?

I do not care how bad a call is, a coach is only going to go so far without penalty. And if a coach thinks so, run into the wrong officials and test that theory.

Peace

[REFANDUMP]

I agree that there are limits. There are some here who think those limits are the same whether we're right or wrong. I don't feel that way. Typically, I'll let him vent a little, then give him a stop sign. If he continues, it's "T" time for me, regardless of how bad my call is.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

I agree that there are limits. There are some here who think those limits are the same whether we're right or wrong. I don't feel that way. Typically, I'll let him vent a little, then give him a stop sign. If he continues, it's "T" time for me, regardless of how bad my call is.

And that is fine, but not everyone feels the way you do. And since this was a partner that gave the T, the partner might not know why something was called or not call, but only is knowledgable of the reaction. And as said this was not a "blown call." It might have been something some of us would have passed on or might have called if other similar calls were made. But there was contact there for sure.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

I agree that there are limits. There are some here who think those limits are the same whether we're right or wrong. I don't feel that way. Typically, I'll let him vent a little, then give him a stop sign. If he continues, it's "T" time for me, regardless of how bad my call is.

Again, virtually every time a coach gets cranky, it's because he thinks we missed a call. More often than not (let's lowball the estimate at 80%), we got the call right (like in the OP). Should we allow that, too?

Besides, most of us have clarified that we'd allow the coach to vent quietly, but the public stomp is off limits. And I won't be giving a stop sign. If I'm not going to allow him to show me up publicly, why would I do that to him? No, I'll be close enough to tell him when he's reached his limit.

[REFANDUMP]

I agree that it was not a blown call, but a judgement call which you could make a case for either way. In this situation, I would have no problem calling the "T". In my judgement, the "T" is best called by the official who the coach is on, but I understand (as Cameron stated well) that protocol may be different in different areas of the country. My point (that I still stand by) is that we need to be able to take more heat when we know we kick a call, than when we know we are correct. I agree that this doesn't give coaches an open invitation to abuse us with no consequences, but I also think our tolerance level should be much higher in these situations. I think to expect a coach to sit there and take it when we both know we screwed them (not intentionally, I know) is an unrealistic expectation.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

I agree that it was not a blown call, but a judgement call which you could make a case for either way. In this situation, I would have no problem calling the "T". In my judgement, the "T" is best called by the official who the coach is on, but I understand (as Cameron stated well) that protocol may be different in different areas of the country. My point (that I still stand by) is that we need to be able to take more heat when we know we kick a call, than when we know we are correct. I agree that this doesn't give coaches an open invitation to abuse us with no consequences, but I also think our tolerance level should be much higher in these situations. I think to expect a coach to sit there and take it when we both know we screwed them (not intentionally, I know) is an unrealistic expectation.

I generally don't know if a call that a coach is questioning is right or wrong until I see the video. Most of them seem right until later. Coaches can question a call without venting. I have seen many coaches learn how to do so after being "taught" what is not right by officials who expect respect.

I wonder if we can use your point to criticize play calls by coaches. "Hey coach, that was a jackass play call. What the hell were you thinking?" I'm sure he won't report us to our assigner if we are right and the play call was actually stupid. We should be able to vent if he makes a mistake.

[REFANDUMP]

I wonder if we can use your point to criticize play calls by coaches. "Hey coach, that was a jackass play call. What the hell were you thinking?" I'm sure he won't report us to our assigner if we are right and the play call was actually stupid. We should be able to vent if he makes a mistake. [/QUOTE]

Wouldn't we all love to get away with that !!! LOL.

[Rich]

I've been traveling earning a living this week and the only comment I'll make on this thread is that it's unlikely a thrown clipboard will be passed on. Those are loud and out in the open and regardless of the reason, it's probably going to be a technical.

20 years ago, I was working a freshman game. The coach was an NCAA white hat in football and is now a D1 deep wing. That day he was a coach who was really upset at his team and fired his clipboard to the ground. The metal clip broke off and shot across the floor in front of me. One of the funniest (in retrospect) technical fouls I've ever had.