LaSalle/Ole Miss (Video Added)

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

On play #2 why is the C calling something all the way over the other side of the lane line right in front of the Trail? And the C had 2 players in between him and the play.

This is a great example of why it is always easier to officiate a play that is coming towards you, rather than going away from you.

Why is the C calling something you ask?....because he could see it and the Trail could not. Assuming this same call had been made on similar plays earlier in the game, this is a good call.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

This is a great example of why it is always easier to officiate a play that is coming towards you, rather than going away from you.

Why is the C calling something you ask?....because he could see it and the Trail could not. Assuming this same call had been made on similar plays earlier in the game, this is a good call.

Bull-puckies that the Trail couldn't see it. And that the play was coming at the C.

Check the play again.

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Bull-puckies that the Trail couldn't see it. And that the play was coming at the C.

Check the play again.

The T had to look thru the dribblers' and defenders' backs to see what the C had coming straight at him.

Sorry if your video review capabilities don't include objectively looking at what each official can see given their positioning.

The lesson that John Adams learned from the 2010 Duke v Butler Championship Game was that call accuracy is almost exclusively dependant on official positioning. Per his review, when those game officials blew the whistle, they were correct 90% of the time. When they did NOT blow the whistle, they were 50% accurate. After evaluating the non-call plays again, he determined that the official did not blow the whistle because he did not see the play.

As a result, Adams was convinced more than ever that an official who cannot get into proper position, cannot get the calls right. Thus began the "end" of NCAA Tournament careers for officials that Adams felt couldn't run well.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by APG

Why would the center be looking back at the coach back there?

Honestly, when this was asked to be posted, I was expecting something a lot worse. This? Wouldn't be paying attention to the coach here.

Because the official facing the bench has the most responsibility for monitoring the table and the benches. If you are the center on FT's, how could you NOT see a coach standing ripping your partner?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by zebraman

Because the official facing the bench has the most responsibility for monitoring the table and the benches. If you are the center on FT's, how could you NOT see a coach standing ripping your partner?

The C is probably doing some other things than worrying about what a coach on the other end is saying. And if the T hears him, that is his threshold that is making him decide if he wants to do something. You should know that we all do not get upset about the same things even if something you personally find over the top. I do not even see someone saying, "That's terrible" as even on my radar. There will be a lot of worse things I might have to address and that comment would be child's play.

Peace

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The C is probably doing some other things than worrying about what a coach on the other end is saying. And if the T hears him, that is his threshold that is making him decide if he wants to do something. You should know that we all do not get upset about the same things even if something you personally find over the top. I do not even see someone saying, "That's terrible" as even on my radar. There will be a lot of worse things I might have to address and that comment would be child's play.

Peace

What else would the C be doing on the dead balls between the free throws? I have my partner's back on that one and I would expect my partner to do the same. "That's awful" in plain view of everyone in the gym four times would be an automatic here. The things the officiating community has come to accept from coaches....

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by zebraman

What else would the C be doing on the dead balls between the free throws? I have my partner's back on that one and I would expect my partner to do the same. "That's awful" in plain view of everyone in the gym four times would be an automatic here. The things the officiating community has come to accept from coaches....

You mean you'd call a T on a coach 40 feet away who doesn't appear to be yelling that demonstratively but kinda just talking to himself, in a 20,000 seat arena with all kinds of noise, based purely on lip reading? Really? In the absence of any other evidence, seems like fishing to me.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by scrounge

You mean you'd call a T on a coach 40 feet away who doesn't appear to be yelling but kinda just talking to himself, in a 20,000 seat arena with all kinds of noise, based purely on lip reading? Really? In the absence of any other evidence, seems like fishing to me.

From the NCAA rulebook.

Art. 2. Bench personnel committing an unsportsmanlike act including, but
not limited to, the following:
a. Disrespectfully addressing an official.
e. Objecting to an official’s decision by rising from the bench or using
gestures.
f. Inciting undesirable crowd reactions.

We really get what we deserve. We make excuses like, "I didn't see it," or "my partner can take care of himself (even though his back is to the play)" or "it doesn't bother me" or "that would be fishing."

He just ripped the trail all the way out of backcourt. He isn't talking to himself. And you don't have to give a T if you don't think your assignor would support you, but it does need to be addressed.

We get what we deserve.

[APG]

The C would probably be looking at the shooter and keeping a count instead of looking into the backcourt to keep an eye on a coach 40 feet away.

Anyhow, need to be realistic. There is NO WAY, in a D1, NCAA Tournament game...with less than 2 minutes left in the game of a tight game....no way a coach is going to get a T for saying "That's awful" no matter how many times...and much less get a T 40 FEET away from the action.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by zebraman

What else would the C be doing on the dead balls between the free throws?

Yeah, I can see how watching a coach who is 40+ feet away and probably not talking loud enough to be heard would be more important than watching the players, who would never think of doing anything illegal while the ball is dead and an official is looking in the wrong direction!

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Yeah, I can see how watching a coach who is 40+ feet away and probably not talking loud enough to be heard would be more important than watching the players, who would never think of doing anything illegal while the ball is dead and an official is looking in the wrong direction!

Novel idea: Do both. Be able to watch the game and control the benches too. I know....... innovative and trendsetting.....

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by APG

The C would probably be looking at the shooter and keeping a count instead of looking into the backcourt to keep an eye on a coach 40 feet away.

Anyhow, need to be realistic. There is NO WAY, in a D1, NCAA Tournament game...with less than 2 minutes left in the game of a tight game....no way a coach is going to get a T for saying "That's awful" no matter how many times...and much less get a T 40 FEET away from the action.

You don't have to T him. Just turn and say, "that's enough coach" with a stern look and an extended hand. It's funny how we (officials) talk about calling the game the same for the whole 40 minutes and interpreting rules literally. We use it to our defense to defend calls. We make fun of announcers who say, "officials shouldn't decide the game in the last two minutes." But then we say, "I'm not going to worry about the coaches behavior now that it's late and close." Players learn our boundaries and so do coaches. When we change, they will adjust.

A good article that includes some quotes from John Adams about coach behavior:
http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/ho...wards-the-refs

[APG]

Originally Posted by zebraman

You don't have to T him. Just turn and say, "that's enough coach" with a stern look and an extended hand. It's funny how we (officials) talk about calling the game the same for the whole 40 minutes and interpreting rules literally. We use it to our defense to defend calls. We make fun of announcers who say, "officials shouldn't decide the game in the last two minutes." But then we say, "I'm not going to worry about the coaches behavior now that it's late and close." Players learn our boundaries and so do coaches. When we change, they will adjust.

A good article that includes some quotes from John Adams about coach behavior:
What to do about coaches behaving badly towards the refs? | Hoop Thoughts | FanNation.com

There's no just turning and telling the coach "that's enough." You're going to have to yell that to a coach that's a considerable amount of distance away from everyone. That or you're going to have to hold up the game to walk over to the coach and address him.

And if we're talking about handling this the same no matter what, I wouldn't expect this to be handle that much differently at any other point in the game. Perhaps if they were on the coach's end of the floor, and official would be there to talk to him...but opposite end of the floor? "That's awful" is tame stuff...but to each their own I suppose.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by APG

There's no just turning and telling the coach "that's enough." You're going to have to yell that to a coach that's a considerable amount of distance away from everyone. That or you're going to have to hold up the game to walk over to the coach and address him.

We can read the coaches lips and they can read ours. Again, just more excuses to not deal with the issue. Much easier to ignore than to deal.

Originally Posted by APG

And if we're talking about handling this the same no matter what, I wouldn't expect this to be handle that much differently at any other point in the game. Perhaps if they were on the coach's end of the floor, and official would be there to talk to him...but opposite end of the floor? "That's awful" is tame stuff...but to each their own I suppose.

To each their own indeed. I'm not going to "teach" a coach that he can be a jackass when he is on the opposite end from me but he has to behave when I'm on his end of the floor. Ridiculous.

What isn't tame stuff? He just reamed the trail and then yelled, "that's awful" 4 times to the point that it even got the TV producer's attention enough for some tight shots. Would he have to say it 15 times? Would have have had to have thrown his jacket at the trail? At what point does it become "disrespectfully addressing an official."

[APG]

Originally Posted by zebraman

We can read the coaches lips and they can read ours. Again, just more excuses to not deal with the issue. Much easier to ignore than to deal.



To each their own indeed. I'm not going to "teach" a coach that he can be a jackass when he is on the opposite end from me but he has to behave when I'm on his end of the floor. Ridiculous.

What isn't tame stuff? He just reamed the trail and then yelled, "that's awful" 4 times to the point that it even got the TV producer's attention enough for some tight shots. Would he have to say it 15 times? Would have have had to have thrown his jacket at the trail? At what point does it become "disrespectfully addressing an official."

That's why we (and especially those officials at that level) get paid the big bucks...being able to appropriately draw the line for the level of competition being worked. I'd venture a guess that this situation would be handled the exact same way by this crew and most other crews. Take that for what it's worth.