Putting hands on official? (Video added)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BubbaRef

That is what "Ralph" told my partner.

I believe you. I have no reason not to believe you. Just stating if that is true that says a lot about how they were not prepared for that game. You have to know that in a game with teams where one is all one color and the other team for the most part is all another color that this could be a problem when trash talking goes on during the game. I have been officiating a long time and I have never heard a player say anything like that to a player of another color at all, but I have been aware it was an accusation in a game. Nip that crap in the bud. I do it often in my games and in situations like this.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I believe you. I have no reason not to believe you. Just stating if that is true that says a lot about how they were not prepared for that game. You have to know that in a game with teams where one is all one color and the other team for the most part is all another color that this could be a problem when trash talking goes on during the game. I have been officiating a long time and I have never heard a player say anything like that to a player of another color at all, but I have been aware it was an accusation in a game. Nip that crap in the bud. I do it often in my games and in situations like this.

Yep. I just can't fathom how a player could drop an n-bomb and stay in the game. Yea, I know it's easy to say later not being in the heat of the moment, but there's virtually nothing verbal that could be worse or more predictably lead to repercussions or retaliation. And if true, it just feeds every single stereotype about downstate teams and officials and just gives ammo to those who want to play the race card. They might play it unjustifiably 99 times, but that 1 time where it just might be true gets them off the hook. Sad situation all around.

[Adam]

I tossed a kid from a football game for that this year. Both players were black, and he was clearly trying to pick a fight with "what's up n----". Like Jeff, I've never seen a white kid use it, though. Right or wrong, there would be a faster hook in this case.

Makes me wonder if Ralph wasn't in a bit over his head.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by scrounge

Yep. I just can't fathom how a player could drop an n-bomb and stay in the game. Yea, I know it's easy to say later not being in the heat of the moment, but there's virtually nothing verbal that could be worse or more predictably lead to repercussions or retaliation. And if true, it just feeds every single stereotype about downstate teams and officials and just gives ammo to those who want to play the race card. They might play it unjustifiably 99 times, but that 1 time where it just might be true gets them off the hook. Sad situation all around.

I can tell you I work in areas or conferences where it is not unusual to have teams with completely different racial backgrounds on both teams like you saw in this championship game. I was sitting with two assignors at a banquet last night (I work for both). When I said to them and others, "I do not know too many assignors that would not assign at least one Black official on that game." You know what one of them said, "I certainly would not do that..."

We talk all the time about working places where you live and if you live in a town should you work a game with a local team? People make more assumptions about the racial composition of individuals than they do by where you live. I have worked recently at least one playoff game with a team in the town where I live and no one has said anything to me about my residence. But when I was working my first Sectional game with a Catholic school (not all white BTW) and an all-Black Community, I heard comments from both set of fans, one side assuming I was not from Chicago, the other assuming I was from Chicago and I was working with two Caucasian officials. Funny part for the 3 of us working that Sectional we all were used to that kind of game and dynamic on the game and one of my partners was a Chicago cop. But people assumed a lot based on the crew's racial mix and believe it or not, I got more crap from the Black community and coach than my partners did (which is typical but that is another conversation for another day). And I can tell you I came from rural, small town Illinois and that was a culture shock for me at first when I moved to the Chicago area. So if I had to adjust and learn that these games can be an extra challenge, you telling me officials that likely never sees that kind of game during the year all of a sudden is prepared for all the crap that could be said or done?

I have said this before, there needs to be more diversity (not necessarily racial diversity) in the officials that work those games and this situation highlights that fact. There are officials in many parts of the state that would have done fine and probably would have put out some of those fires or at least ejected the damn kid for making such a statement.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I can tell you I work in areas or conferences where it is not unusual to have teams with completely different racial backgrounds on both teams like you saw in this championship game. I was sitting with two assignors at a banquet last night (I work for both). When I said to them and others, "I do not know too many assignors that would not assign at least one Black official on that game." You know what one of them said, "I certainly would not do that..."

We talk all the time about working places where you live and if you live in a town should you work a game with a local team? People make more assumptions about the racial composition of individuals than they do by where you live. I have worked recently at least one playoff game with a team in the town where I live and no one has said anything to me about my residence. But when I was working my first Sectional game with a Catholic school (not all white BTW) and an all-Black Community, I heard comments from both set of fans, one side assuming I was not from Chicago, the other assuming I was from Chicago and I was working with two Caucasian officials. Funny part for the 3 of us working that Sectional we all were used to that kind of game and dynamic on the game and one of my partners was a Chicago cop. But people assumed a lot based on the crew's racial mix and believe it or not, I got more crap from the Black community and coach than my partners did (which is typical but that is another conversation for another day). And I can tell you I came from rural, small town Illinois and that was a culture shock for me at first when I moved to the Chicago area. So if I had to adjust and learn that these games can be an extra challenge, you telling me officials that likely never sees that kind of game during the year all of a sudden is prepared for all the crap that could be said or done?

I have said this before, there needs to be more diversity (not necessarily racial diversity) in the officials that work those games and this situation highlights that fact. There are officials in many parts of the state that would have done fine and probably would have put out some of those fires or at least ejected the damn kid for making such a statement.

Peace

I tend to agree.

Now I need that second Dos Equis.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Adam

I tend to agree.

Now I need that second Dos Equis.

Isn't that just a Cuatro Equis?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

Isn't that just a Cuatro Equis?

Yeah, but I can't afford the premium stuff.

[BubbaRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I believe you. I have no reason not to believe you. Just stating if that is true that says a lot about how they were not prepared for that game. You have to know that in a game with teams where one is all one color and the other team for the most part is all another color that this could be a problem when trash talking goes on during the game. I have been officiating a long time and I have never heard a player say anything like that to a player of another color at all, but I have been aware it was an accusation in a game. Nip that crap in the bud. I do it often in my games and in situations like this.

Not a problem. Just wanted to pass on info I got from a guy that worked the game. I told my partner that I would have tossed the Harrisburg kid for saying it. 1 T for the F word and the 2nd T for the N word. I agree, nip it in the bud early and take care of it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BubbaRef

Not a problem. Just wanted to pass on info I got from a guy that worked the game. I told my partner that I would have tossed the Harrisburg kid for saying it. 1 T for the F word and the 2nd T for the N word. I agree, nip it in the bud early and take care of it.

It would just be a flagrant technical from me. But I wouldn't hesitate for even a second.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BubbaRef

Not a problem. Just wanted to pass on info I got from a guy that worked the game. I told my partner that I would have tossed the Harrisburg kid for saying it. 1 T for the F word and the 2nd T for the N word. I agree, nip it in the bud early and take care of it.

I would have been more concerned with the use of a racial slur. That is just about as automatic as it can get. And it would have been done with one Flagrant Technical Foul.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would have been more concerned with the use of a racial slur. That is just about as automatic as it can get. And it would have been done with one Flagrant Technical Foul.

Riddle me this? What if two African American teammates use the n word between themselves, not in anger, but as some type of cultural urban greeting, not whispered, not yelled, but loud enough so that an official, a few players, a few fans, and a coach can hear it?

It wasn't during the game, but the n word was used by Kemba Walker as he was being interviewed, surrounded by his teammates, after Connecticut won their most recent national championship. We all heard it. It's not too far of a stretch to think that we could hear something similar during our high school games.

[johnny d]

Context matters. In the case you bring up BillMac, not being used in deragatory manner or as racial slur, so I wouldnt touch in that situation.

[JRutledge]

I will tell you the difference. Go to the Southside of Chicago as a white person, Hispanic or someone clearly not apart of that group and see how many *** whoopins you have to avoid. Let me do the same thing and no one would bat an eye. It is really that simple.

Now I am not saying I like the usage fo the word and do not use it in mixed company, let alone inside people I like (I was raised by someone that did not like the word in any context). I often tell players not to use that word around me and I do not care if they are saying it to each other. But they will not use that word in my presence. Usually that sends a message and I do not hear it much. Also that is very rare and most players know that is not acceptable in many circles. They likely do not say that in a classroom. I use it as a teaching moment.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Riddle me this? What if two African American teammates use the n word between themselves, not in anger, but as some type of cultural urban greeting, not whispered, not yelled, but loud enough so that an official, a few players, a few fans, and a coach can hear it?

It wasn't during the game, but the n word was used by Kemba Walker as he was being interviewed, surrounded by his teammates, after Connecticut won their most recent national championship. We all heard it. It's not too far of a stretch to think that we could hear something similar during our high school games.

That's a tough one but as JRut mentioned in his most recent post we just establish ground rules. I guess the main difference is he and I go into games knowing it might be used so it's not a major shock. We're both the same in that neither of us likes the word that much so making the kids aware of it - or more aware - is key. Usually a hard stare or a, "Young men, not today" clears up the problems if they're saying it - but not yelling it - to one another.

I've mentioned in other posts we have a "no profanity" policy in the NYC Public Schools (another debate for another time) so when we give a quick mention about sportsmanship in the pre-game meeting we'll remind players in schools where it may be an issue "that includes the N-word." I can say I've yet to have a problem.

[Raymond]

I like the announcers in this video:

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