The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 30, 2001, 10:21am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Newburgh NY
Posts: 1,822
There is an interesting article in February's issue of referee magazine concerning lack of officials and declining attendance. The article mentioned that there is a meeting in June to discuss this very issue.

The main problem according to the article was that officals "fear for their life" and are tired of taking all the abuse.
The offenders get a mere slap on the wrist.

Also, it isn't uncommon for players and coaches to BLAST the officals during interviews. The media is also very critical of officials.

The pay just isn't worth it. In fact the article mentioned that some D1 schools are having difficulty in scheduling games because of the lack of officials. I know my association is in need of officials as I did roughly 1/3 of my games alone.

In today's era, it seems teams put more pressure on Blue by putting the game in THEIR HANDS instead of their own. When Blue makes that crucial obstruction call when the defense is cheating or rings up B1 for strike three - holy hell breaks lose. Coaches want to punch the daylights out of someone (that someone being Blue).

Also, society needs to get a life as fans get to outraged over a simple game. God forbid when Blue makes a mistake - it's like the next coming of World War III.

I personally found the article very interesting and the flight of officials doesn't look to promising unless something is done. It's my gut that when the baby boom generation (guys/ gals around 42 - 45 yrs. old) hangs it up, there will not be enough qualified replacements.

Plenty of times my kids say "hey Dad WHAT'S UP - why do you umpire? Sometimes I wonder that myself.

The game is still a game but society views it a lot different than when we played. In my day, the coach didn't want to hear any complaints when you got called looking. In fact we used to have a 3-2 pitch drill in which the coach would pitch the ball (purposely) around 6 - 8 inches off the outer edge.

If you didn't attempt to at least foul it off - you ran laps. That's when anything close MEANT Anything close. Today one hears "Common Blue Give me a break".

The attitude towards officials has really changed. People view us as a ncecessary evil instead of being an intregal part of the game.

I recommend you read the article and do you too find that too many teams are putting the game in Blues Hands instead of their own.
__________________
Peter M. Booth
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 30, 2001, 10:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 3
Thumbs up

I agree with your comments/thoughts but have not read the article yet. I played Legion ball many years and if you went down looking with runners on board, don't bother bringing your glove/bat to the next practice because all you're going to do is run, or when a LL batter gives you dirty looks for calling a belt high middle of the plate strike 3.

Several of the local leagues from LL up are having problems finding umpw to work their games. I did several nights where I called both games behind the plate with a "volunteer" who was in actuality a parent or a chach who did not have a clue about positioning or how to make a proper call. Fortunatly in games like these there was not a lot of back talk from the coaches allowed.

I did a HS game last year by myself and informed BOTH coaches upfront that I would do the best I could but there was no way possible to be right on top of every play. for the most part there were no problems except for two plays with one going each way.

Question for the forum: In a situation like mine above, would it be customary for the home team to pay the fee for both umpires to the one who shows up? In other words should the single ump be paid a double fee if he is the only one there working the game? I await your answer(s)>
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 30, 2001, 10:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Newburgh NY
Posts: 1,822
"Question for the forum: In a situation like mine above, would it be customary for the home team to pay the fee for both umpires to the one who shows up? In other words should the single ump be paid a double fee if he is the only one there working the game? I await your answer

In the HS association I belong to - If you work the game alone you get 1 Fee plus 1/2 Fee. This is also common practice throughout Summer / Fall Ball as well.

LL is volunteer so you might get an extra hot dog or 2 for your efforts. I do not know about other Youth Leagues who pay their umpires such as Babe Ruth / etc.

Pete Booth
__________________
Peter M. Booth
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 30, 2001, 01:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 813
When I am hard up for cash I call more games, but money is not the reason I umpire. Money may be the difference in whether I call a 50 game year or a 250 game year. You reach a point where the fun reduces and money becomes a more important issue. If things are going well, many will reduce their gamecount and use ump fees as WAM (walk around money).

I don't think you ever take all the fun out of it. I'm tired of hearing umps talk about all the money they put into gear, etc. Relative to the payback it is very little. I don't know of many jobs that pay you to come and go from work or for your time of doing it---don't expect it of baseball. But when unps want to figure their net they throw all that in as cost. That's BS. All in all I figure umpiring may pay approx $15-$20 per hour of field time. Pretty good pay to do something you like doing---and most are doing part time. Possibly better that getting paid twice that if you'd be doing something you hated doing. Outstanding for part time, but very difficult if you plan on officiating alone as a source of income. Just like professional sport pays well, so does professional officiating, but when you take that next step down in either don't expect to live well if that's all you are doing. If you ain't at the top, you better be lookin at it as part time.

I haven't read Pete's article, but I don't think pay is the issue. I think it's an attitude in society. Generally speaking, I don't think today's youth respects authority as much as the generation previous. I suspect the same was true when I was a youth. My parents' generation likly had more respect for authority than my generation. So, who really wants to put themself in a position of authority when you know that position, historically, has to make decisions that are going to be criticized. Today's umpire, therefore, will likely have to take much more guff than yesterday's umpire--not just from the kids but from the fans also. Increasing pay is not necessarily the answer (although it can help).

Additionally, there are likely many more recreational activities available to people. Society today is not what it was 40 years ago. With those additional options, sports may not have the stronghold it once did in society's recreation. Although it pays well for part time, there are many additional options available to eat up someones spare time.

Just my opinion,
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 30, 2001, 07:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,729
Unhappy Houston, we may have a problem here,

Jim Mills has hit the nail directly on the head.

I have never tried to hide that my priorities when it comes to umpiring.

1) Money

2) Power

3) Love of the Game (way down the list)

Now I don’t think there is anything wrong with that philosophy. I feel the nothing is worth doing unless it can be measured (i.e. I would never think of playing golf without keeping score). Earning money gives an umpire two distinct advantages:

a) You can buy new gear and be as professional as possible,
b) You clearly separate yourself from a group of noble volunteers that truly work “for the kids”.

The main challenge as I see it is that programs want more (more games, more participants, more fields) with less . . . hey dollars are harder and harder to find. There has to be a break point.

In my humble opinion bfair missed one major point: “I don’t think today’s youth respects authority as much as the generation previous.” b, tell you what, if you didn’t umpire, referee or officiate sports during the Vietnam War era you know nothing of disrespect. It was far worse than ANYTHING you see now.

All sports in my area (Portland, OR) have a shortage of officials. There is a very complex reason:

1) Many high school sports start games as early as 3:30pm. This means that a normal 9 to 5 worker must find a way to leave work and get to the game in time for the start. This means that MANY of the umpires in our group are from a small group of people, educators.
2) Many high schools have developed a “no-cut” philosophy in sports. If someone wants to play they will field a team. This dilutes the pool of available officials even farther.
3) The advancement of Women’s (Girl’s) Athletics. Title Nine not only said that the teams will be available but they will be equal. This means that the same number of officials now work two gender’s of athletics.
4) Cronyism. Young officials have the burning desire to move up the chain. When I was a newbie I thought I should have had the biggest game in town every night – but I was cradled and taught my time would come. New officials, at least in my experience, now want to move up faster than the status quo wants them to, couple that with all the classes, clinics and training devices now the INVESTMENT by some of these people is enormous AND they want to advance to gain those funds back.

So I selected to retire from umpiring this winter. It really doesn’t matter to any of you WHY I called it quits after 33 seasons and 3,146 games however the reason fits this thread.

I got tired of the “shit”. Sorry I know no better word.

I got tired of fighting through traffic to get to the site, I got tired of my partners showing up 3 mins to game time, I got tired of players never thinking they did wrong, I got tired of coaches beefing about rules that didn’t even understand, I got tired of fans (just because they’re fans).

In the last two years I spent over $3,000 on gear, $2,000 on training, I studied all types of rules hard, I fought with the UIC of the Internet. What did it get me, little satisfaction and no respect.

I think we are heading for a problem with finding officials. As long as the economy is good there is little reason for people to gravitate to a profession that has few rewards.

I have spent a large portion of my umpire life training and teaching new umpires. I was told this year that what I was teaching was a travesty . . . was NOT the “way to do it!” So, with a little self pity, I said screw it.

At 51 years I know that I would never be as good an umpire as I once was . . . it was easy for me to walk away . . . I will miss the smell of newly cut infields, I will miss the look of a newly lined field, I will miss the battles between pitcher and hitter, I will miss seeing a young Shortstop go into the whole and throw out “the fat kid”. I will not, however, miss the devalued respect given to people who have worked their entire lives to be as good as their simple talents allow them.

There is a problem and it is just beginning.






[Edited by Tim C on Jan 30th, 2001 at 10:52 PM]
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 30, 2001, 09:13pm
JJ JJ is offline
Veteran College Umpire
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: IN
Posts: 1,122
I've been umping for over 20 years, and I can honestly say the reasons I umpire are as follows:
1. Love of the game.

2. Love of the game.

3. Love of the game.

4. Comradship

5. Money

Granted, I get more money than I did 20 years ago. Because I love the game, I have worked to improve myself as an official. Because I have invested the time and money to improve myself, I have gotten better, which has led to better assignments, which has led to more money. But I still do High School games now and then, and low-paying Legion ball in the Summer, and I occasionally go work a game for free as a third man - because I love the game. After awhile, you come to appreciate a well played game, a timely hit, a great defensive play - without really knowing or caring which player or team benefitted. You appreciate it because, as a lifelong student of the game, you recognize how hard it is to play the game well. Same thing for umpiring - it is hard to do it well. Unfortunately, many of the people who play and watch the game don't know how hard it is, or how hard you worked to be where you are. That's society today - "What have you done for ME lately?" So I do this because I love the game, and can look in the mirror and feel satisfied with my performance. I have learned to savor the rewards of the game, because I never know where they're coming from - and that's why I value my umping peers. I know how hard they've worked, because they're in the same boat I am. A sincere pat on the back from one of them is worth a dozen coaches or players saying, "Nice job" - though I certainly don't dismiss THOSE kudos, either! I love this game because I grew up playing it. The kids who truly love baseball will appreciate it on a higher level someday - those who don't, won't. Some of the truly lucky will get to umpire when their playing days are over.

Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 01, 2001, 02:12pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,785
Adding my voice

I enjoy officiating, but I've never done it for free and probably never will.

I started as a 14-year-old umpire working a 10-12 league. Then, I would've worked for free, but I *was* paid five dollars a game, which taught me an important lesson. If I work a game, I expect to be paid.

I worked my first "real" game as a college freshman. I thought officiating was stealing, making $30 for a JV basketball game that took an hour.

Now, 17 years after I called my first strike, I'm ready to join the cry. I guess I'm in it for the money, too.

Let me explain. I am what you would call a gear junkie. Every season, I buy new uniforms and at least one high-end piece of protective equipment. I always start out a season with new plate shoes and new base shoes.

This, my friends, isn't cheap.

Nor is the time I spend learning rules, attending meetings, attending clinics, buying books, etc.

And my day job shouldn't be in the business of funding my second job.

And now, as a computer professional making a good living, my opinion hasn't changed one iota.

If you want my services, be prepared to pay the going rate.

If you aren't willing to pay umpires the going rate, but have no qualms about paying for $300 bats, then your priorities are misplaced.

If you are spending all your money entering tournaments and traveling across the country, then don't complain about having to shell out $60 for umpires, especially if your players' parents are well-to-do and could afford them.

Now, when I am fortunate enough to have a child playing on a team, THEN feel free to ask for my services. I could serve as UIC or I could help with the scheduling of the paid umpires. But umpiring will always, in my opinion, be a paid avocation.

Rich
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 01, 2001, 04:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 22
Smile Why I umpire

Why do I umpire? I do not umpire for the money, however, without the money, I couldn't umpire. Let me explain, its not for the cost of the gear and uniform, its not for the cost of gas, its how I justify to my family why I am away so much in the spring, summer and early fall. My wife knows that I would umpire for free as long as I could be at a baseball game. Umpiring to me is a passion. I spend all my free time thinking about umpiring. The days that I have a game to umpire, I can hardly perform my normal job. I guess that I am possessed. I go to the game with a smile on my face and I leave the game with a smile. I critique my performance after every game and vow to try and improve.

I have been very fortunate in my seven years of umpiring(LL, Varsity, Senior American legion and MSBL)to have worked with very competent partners, but you really can tell the difference when someone is really doing it "for the Money". Their uniform is ragged, their attitude is terrible, their rules knowledge is questonable and their mechanics are horrible. So I don't care whether you umpire as a passion or for the money, what I care about is that you are professional in your approach.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 04, 2001, 11:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 220
Send a message via AIM to Ump20
Professional Umpires in Amateur Sports

It is interesting to see many umpires cringe at those who say they officiate for the money as their primary or only reason. I don't think this is a reason why some officials are ragged in apperance or poor on rules knowledge. Pride and fairness are values that are part of who we are as people not as umpires. I spent 17 years as an EMT with my volunteer ambulance corps. In the city of New York we also have paid EMT's and Paramedics who are employed by the NYC Fire Dept. If you have a heart attack or an accident on one of our roads you're looking for someone who is qualified. I was neither better nor worse than my paid peers just because I was a volunteer.

Tim C is hanging them up after 33 years. I wish him well as change is often difficult. Maybe he'll be back after a short sabbatical. 51 is still pretty young. I agree with him that respect for authority has deteriorated over that span. I'm not sure what the solution is but maybe it reflects even a greater need for umpires, coaches, teachers, and other role models who command respect by the way the carry themselves and by their own value systems. Jim/NY
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 08, 2001, 11:35pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 17
Money is the only thing....but.....

I got into umpiring 10 years ago almost exclusively to make some extra money. I had just come off of one season of coaching basketball (7-9 year olds) and wanted to try the officiating end of sports. The more I umpired, the more I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the interaction with the players (good and bad), coaches (bad ) , and the feeling of making decisions in a flowing environment.

I still umpire because I enjoy it. I choose to limit my schedule because I now have a career and a girlfriend neither of which I had when I started 10 years ago. But would I do it for free ? Not hardly. By the time I add up my gas, uniforms, equipment.. I probably break even with the pay I get each year (which is OK) but I couldn't afford to work and not get paid. I only worked once for free and it was while I was in grad school. We weren't allowed to have side jobs so I donated my game checks back to the association. Needless to say that was not my idea.

Thankfully I haven't reached the point of Tim C., but I understand his reasons. When I first started oi Raleigh NC in 1991, I was lucky if I got to work and 11-12 yr old game. However, by 1993 they were sending guys fresh out of clinics to do 13-14 and 15-16 games. I became the senior man in may cases. I've moved a bunch since then and only in one instance have I been shorted work. Most places are happy to get someone with experience who is competant.

I guess where all this leads is that we as umpires aren't growing in numbers, yet we know more leagues are forming and more kids are playing. What can we as a vocation do to recruit young umpires ? Is money the only thing ? or are there other factors? (Tim C. did a good job listing some in his post)..

Lawrence
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 09, 2001, 02:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 220
Send a message via AIM to Ump20
High School Fees on Long Island

Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Mills
Thanks, Peter, but you have your "Jims" confused.

I'm from Michigan. Our pay s--....well, it isn't competitive. There is a HS league here that pays any fool willing to work it $55 for a VARSITY DOUBLEHEADER.

Ump20 is Jim from NY.
Although I am inactive and no longer doing high school baseball I can tell you the downstate fees are the best around. Varsity gets $90 per game. What may be even more difficult to believe is that girls' softball officials are now on an equal footing. I think it had something to do with a potential lawsuit.

You can come on up to Long Island to officiate. Full availablity gets you I think 25-30 games per season but some of your "standards" may face the close scruitny of varsity coaches who determine the lion's share of your rating. Instead of a pre-game your partner at the plate may be sharing war stories with the home coach about where their kids are going to college and the base guy is going to be over at first BS'ing with each base coach between every inning. I also think Long Island has some of the highest electric rates in the country but unlike California we seem to have plent of it. Jim/NY
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 09, 2001, 06:51pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 561
Unhappy Re: Money is the only thing....but.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Mills
If someone expresses an interest in umpiring, I encourage it and point them toward training, toward job opportunity, toward equipment suppliers--even toward umpire bulletin boards. I don't recruit. I encourage those who express interest on their own. What can we do as a vocation to recruit more umpires? I couldn't care less. I don't need umpire services. When I do, I guarantee you I won't have a shortage.
Interesting philosophy, Jim. And it will work, too, but only up to a point. At that point, when the leagues still can't find enough umpires despite the highest fees they can manage, they may start looking for ways to do without umpires. Maybe they might make it the responsibility of teams to provide their own official. Maybe they will loosen the accreditation requirements for those officials. And just maybe they'll do the recruiting for you. Who cares, you say?

That course is guaranteed to ensure there are a LOT more officials who think about nothing but the money when they approach their occupation in baseball. It is NOT likely to produce officials who have a great sense of the history and tradition of what baseball is all about, and are thus committed to ensure that the game's laudible ideals are properly carried out by the earnest application of the principles embodied in its rules.

In short, Jim, it is a philosophy that will ultimately produce more HHH's and less truly committed officials. No wonder Peter is all for it! He would be the majority he always believed he was! (grin)

Remember the story about the goose that laid the golden egg? What killed that goose was the unceasing demand for more, more, more... with little or no thought for the goose's welfare. If someone doesn't take care of the goose's needs, everyone loses in the long run. Baseball, in all of its many and varied forms, is OUR goose that lays the golden eggs. If we don't care about the game's history and traditions, and take care to recruit other officials who feel the same responsibility, pretty soon it won't exist.

I can see it now; the managers turn up to the plate meeting in New Baseball and decide based on how they feel today as to whether we have balks, obstruction or interference, etc. And the officials say "Sure! Do what you want as long as you pay me!" That ain't baseball, guys. That simply AIN'T baseball! The goose is DEAD!

Jim umpiring selfishly for money is ok. Refusing to participate in ensuring the care and welfare of the living, breathing source of that money is just plain dumb, IMHO!

Cheers,
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2001, 11:39am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Newburgh NY
Posts: 1,822
Re: Re: Re: Money is the only thing....but.....

Peter here's another reason why it's hard to keep Baseball umpires as opposed to officials in other sports.

Baseball is not a timed sport. You get paid lets say $50.00 for a 7 inning game whether it lasts 1 hr. 10 minutes or a marathon say 3 hrs. and change.

My friend is a football official and on a Saturday it's not all that uncommon for him to earn between $150.00 to $200.00 doing Pop Warner games. He can do 4 or 5 games as the games are all TIMED 1 hour each. Try umpiring 4 games in 90 - 95 degree heat.

Baskeball / Soccor officials - similiar to football, the games are timed. They can do 4 or 5 games on a Saturday / Sunday.

Therefore, if you put the umpire fee into an hourly rate calculation, the Baseball umpire isn't really earning all that much. After a couple of summers working in the heat, one can see the decline in umpires. Their answer - it's just not worth it.

In summary, I agree pay is a big part of the equation as Time goes by . Initially we are all "gung Ho" but that wears off.

Pete Booth
__________________
Peter M. Booth
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2001, 05:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 561
Arrow Re: Money is the only thing....but.....

Quote:
Originally posted by His High Holiness
My business approach to baseball is consistently misrepresented and your post above is no exception. On the business side of baseball, I recruited hundreds of umpires over an 8 year period. Perhaps 10 - 15% (and they were all under 20), started umpiring for the money. The other 85 - 90% joined for the love of the game. The had all of the mom and apple pie idealism when they joined that you rightfully point out is so important. The problem is on the back end. Out of 250 umpires, we have about 50 who quit every year. Although money is not the reason that they joined, they might have stayed a few more years had the fees been higher. That would have meant that we could have serviced more leagues rather than turn them away as we do now. We constantly pursue better baseball and sluff off the 12-15 year old programs who end up using parents out of the stands. We would keep those programs, if we had the umpires to service them.
Peter,

I hadn't intended to misrepresent your "business approach" to umpiring as an assignor and recruiter. I have absolutely no problems with that, especially if it wins more officials to the game and improves conditions in the process. I just can't accept the whole package. The problem I have is that everything seems to be reduced to an issue of money. This is a typical example. You say the problem is the "back end" where your association has a high rate of attrition. You say paying more money would have kept those officials for longer. I say finding out what turns them off and resolving the issues might keep them indefinitely, despite the money. It's a question of approach. Yours is quick and easy and offers a short term solution that keeps disgruntled officials going back on the park for the money and no other reason. Mine says let them go because their attitude does us more harm than good and exacerbates the problem that is abuse and disrespect. The most common taunt we hear when officials do it for the money is "You're not worth what we're paying"! When officials are doing it ONLY for the money, most times the taunt is accurate!

Quote:

What I find so amazing about the business discussions that I have regarding umpires on these boards is that we all accept money as a motivating factor regarding other professions. Why should umpiring be any different than medicine, electricians, or teaching? Let us focus on teaching, a profession directed at youth and much more important than umpiring. How many teachers join the profession for the money? Not many. Almost all join because they want to help kids and make a difference. They have all of the right motivations that you point out are so important.

I don't know about Australia, but in America thousands of teachers leave the profession every year to pursue other professions and money is a big reason that they leave. Bureuacracy, politics, and abuse by students also weigh into the equation. (It sounds a lot like baseball umpiring.) Just as the teaching profession loses its best and brightest, so does the umpiring profession, and for some of the same reasons. The purpose of Jim's and my posts are to point out that money is and should be part of the discussion when it comes to getting quality umpires on the field.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would discount money as a motivating factor in officiating. Many, I'm sure, would discount money as the SOLE motivating factor. I accept the importance of money to keeping good officials. I recently won a 20% pay increase for my officials by proving empirically to the league what it costs an official to walk out on the diamond week in and week out. If I could get them paid twice as much, I would still lose more officials than I can recruit in the current climate.

Your analogy to teaching is an excellent one that I accept as perfectly relevant to this discussion. I even agree with the shared reasons for the high rate of attrition in both occupations. In both cases, paying more money is only a bandaid solution. If bureaucracy, politics and abuse are the shared reasons for officials leaving the game, we need to deal with those root causal factors and not just pay more money to make it worthwhile for existing officials to accept them. One of the most frequent excuses I hear from ex players for NOT becoming an official is "What? And put up with the abuse you guys get? No thanks!" These are the same guys who were doing the abusing a couple of years before! Paying them more money is no more a solution for umpires than it would be for teachers. Eventually the root problems will win out anyway. Deal with the root problems.

Quote:

I have never suggested that money is the only motivating factor in recruiting umpires. I will,however, just like the NEA, continue to harp on it as long as the are those idealistic umpires with their heads in the sand that believe that we can ignore the issue. Just as the best teachers gravitate to the localities with the best pay and working conditions, the best umpires will behave in exactly the same manner.
If you aren't suggesting money is the ONLY motivating factor in recruiting, then we may be closer on this issue than either of us thought possible. Given a choice between 2 otherwise equal evils, most sane people will likely chose the one that pays the best! Agreed.

Quote:

And yes, they will even be more appreciative of the coaches and players that they work for. Highly paid workers tend to have a better relationship with their employers than poor paid ones. For the record, I have never had a coach come to the plate conference and want to negotiate obstruction or interference. If they want to play without balks, that is fine with me. That has not happened, however, since I last did a 13 year old game. It has happened in FED games where they wanted to play with OBR balks. Again, for $60 for 2 hours of work in warm sun, they can have what they want. Umpiring is different from teaching in this regard. We are a facilitator of fun and entertainment.
See, Peter, this is where we always come unstuck. I certainly understand WHY you believe we work for the coaches and players. I just don't think you understand WHY you are wrong about this. We do NOT work for the coaches and players, either directly or ultimately, despite the undisputable fact that their dollars wind up in our pockets. Players and coaches come and go over time. Leagues are much more constant, and the game itself is semi-permanent. We work for the league and baseball, not the players and coaches that make up that league and play baseball.

If a player or coach is the one who hands over my hire, that doesn't give him a right to dictate the way the game is played. He is a participant in the league NOT the owner. We work for the league owner. You do your employer, the league, no good service to change the rules they give you to officiate by in order to please a minority of those with input into the league's aims and objectives. That is NOT an ethical approach to take on this issue. Notice that I did NOT say YOU were unethical, only that this approach is unethical.

Peter, I don't want to end up in a back-and-forth on this issue. You have had your say, and I have had mine. We must surely A2D on this subject. Let the readers judge. I have no doubt some will see this your way. I hope that most will see it mine.

Cheers,
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2001, 06:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 561
Unhappy Re: Re: Re: Money is the only thing....but.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Mills
The consumers of baseball umpiring services, the ones with the vested interest, simply do not provide benefits of any sort sufficient to alleviate their shortages. Tim C told of the early start times that eliminate existing umpires from consideration. The schools stay wedded to the concept of doubleheaders only. That requires a 4 p.m. start, and four-and-a-half hours, minimum, "on the clock." Will the schools change to single games with a 5:30 start to attract more umpires who a) can't get off early, and/or b) don't want to commit six hours? That partial solution has fallen on deaf ears for years now.

Bfair said earlier in this thread that it should not be expected to be compensated for travel to and from (games), as other jobs don't provide it. He is wrong; others build it into their rates. Also, if someone spends 90 minutes of vacation time to leave early, and his pay rate is $20 per hour, it is entirely proper to count $30 as a "cost" of umpiring, as any competent cost accountant will tell you. These are costs typically not borne by other officials.
Ok, Jim, I understand what you're saying and I agree. But these issues aren't really about officiating for profit. They are about fair compensation for costs incurred. Isn't that so? Even if 100% of costs are covered, people still need a motivation other than money to face the bureaucracy, politics and abuse that confronts officials on a daily basis. These other issues are certainly real, but they are often only an excuse for the real problems and when resolved will only make way for other excuses until the real problems are resolved. I am willing to wager that, despite your protestations to the contrary, even YOU do NOT officiate purely for profit. You do it for a host of other reasons that might include power or prestige. It's just that money is the chief aggravation at the moment. I often tell my officials who believe there is profit in officiating that they'd better sit down and do the math, because they're on their way to going broke if they think there is any real profit in officiating amateur sports.

Quote:

I have never interpreted HHH's disagreements with you and others, nor his sometimes out-in-left-field approach to umpiring, to be indicative of a lack of commitment. If the work he has done as an author and assigner signifies a lack of commitment, I am an outright detriment, for I have done far less than he. His methods are legitimate topics of debate; I don't think his commitment is.
I never said HHH showed a lack of commitment. I said his attitude showed a lack of commitment to BASEBALL. They are very different assertions. Peter is committed beyond any question to his philosophy, to the commercial success of his association and to better pay for his officials. None of these are inherently wrong! It is only Peter's apparent lack of commitment to BASEBALL that I find insidious. BASEBALL is the "constant" that needs our fidelity to continue to survive. BASEBALL is the goose that keeps even Peter in golden eggs.

Quote:

Aluminum and composite bats; player re-entry; designated hitter; courtesy runners; "juiced" balls. Baseball as an institution has a record of doing whatever it thinks will "improve" the game, history and tradition be damned. Umpires should be the sole guardians of history and tradition for $35 a game? A2D.
I have NEVER suggested that umpires should be "the sole guardians of history and tradition". NEVER. I have suggested that we have a responsibility, granted us under the rules, to play our very important part in protecting that history and tradition. If $35.00 a game is not enough for that, how about $5.00 per game? If you and people like you don't start caring about the game EVEN FOR THE MONEY IT PROVIDES, then it will die and you will get NOTHING from it! THAT is the moral of the story about the goose and the golden eggs.

The whole point of my argument is that what keeps the game alive is its fans. What keeps them fans is very much the history and traditions of the game; its laudible ideals for providing balance and rewarding effort. When people start believing that money is all its about, the game will be dead. You can see that now in the disenchantment of so many fans with the big money players who are so obviously committed only to themselves and their own well-being. That disenchantment echos through the whole structure of the game in your country AND mine. That is why kids are leaving in droves to play soccer, among other sports. The game is off the rails and it is the lust for money, without a care for history and tradition, that put it there!

Quote:

I don't umpire selfishly for money. This is a straight contractual arrangement--value given, value received. I simply hold the opinion that the leagues are getting better than they're giving--and the market, apparently, agrees. Shouldering the lion's share of the responsibility, when the participants themselves shirk it at every turn, is futile. I recruited a dozen or so umpires in the past--guys to whom I literally sold the concept. Not a single one made it into his fourth year.

I have watched the "financial carrot" solution work in both football and basketball. It attracted many more officials who went on to be competent or better. In basketball, it attracted so many new referees that leagues were able to expand to three-man crews.

I want profits. If umpiring does not provide them, I will find something else that does.
Jim, only you could reconcile "I don't umpire selfishly for money" with "I want profits. If umpiring does not provide them, I will find something else that does." To quote Carl "Lah me!"

Look, I find nothing wrong with using money as a "carrot" to recruit and retain officials. It is only when money becomes the official's SOLE reason for participating that I believe it is harmful. It promotes an attitude that sacrifices what is good and valuable about the game to the politics of self interest. Near enough is good enough. It is bad enough that this is what drives the pro's. Do we have to tolerate it among the amateurs as well? Shouldn't the pure love of the game at least play a part?

In amateur leagues where players are not paid, coaches are not paid and scorekeepers are not paid it is wrong that officials who are usually paid, at least in reimbursement of their expenses, don't look to help preserve the game for those helping them to continue enjoying its benefits. No wonder they abuse us at every turn! And all of this began as a discussion of recruiting new officials and why you, in particular, refuse to participate in that effort.

I'm sorry, Jim. I may be naive but your raw cynicism on this issue simply leaves me cold. Don't take that personally, though. It's just the way things are. A2D.

Cheers,
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:54pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1