Putting hands on official? (Video added)

[fullor30]

Billy Mac's post is spot on.....

That said, having a city school play a downstate rural school, I would have liked to seen a mix of officials that fit Billy's description who would have been able to adapt to any style game, it didn't appear to be the case here.

Second T was warranted, easy one. First one on kid, I dunno. I have know idea what he said, if he had been warned previously, but from tape only I would've passed, especially noting that #11 pushed him ever so slightly in back. To step in and tell him/them to knock it off seemed like the better course. Again from tape only, it didn't seem like much.

Earlier in game there was a situation with Seton coach where official should have gotten away from him after a warning regarding coach's box, Seton coach is then talking to official and is at most two feet out of box and official is pointing him to get back, you have to see it, it just doesn't look good.


Having watched most of game, it was ugly and a tough game to officiate.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I would have liked to seen a mix of officials that fit Billy's description who would have been able to adapt to any style game.

Hey. I was available. It was an open date for me on Arbiter. My bag was packed. Nobody called me.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think this was actually the best post I have ever read from you. Seriously!!!

Peace

Me too.

[SE Minnestoa Re]

Despite most state associations' working hard on improving sportsmanship, it seems like it isn't getting any better. A couple of things I have heard about inthe past couple of days:

1) the issues on this thread
2) In Minnesota, a coach being escorted out of the game by police. And this happened during a 5th grade tournament.

We need to change culture if we ever want this to get better. As officials, I think we need to accept our share of the blame.

Do we "T" up players we see finger wagging?

Do we let coaches howl at us for an entire game, often outside of the coaching box?

Do we not want to call the early handcheck because "it is a cheap foul"

I will guarantee you that if we as officials started enforcing sportsmanship to the letter of the law much of this negative behavior would cease. A couple of ejections coupled with a couple of suspension should send the message that this type of behavior is not acceptable.

Piggybacking on Billy's comments about where you work, I work exclusively rural games. If you put me in the middle of an inner city game, I would be like a fish out of water.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by SE Minnestoa Re

Despite most state associations' working hard on improving sportsmanship, it seems like it isn't getting any better. A couple of things I have heard about inthe past couple of days:

1) the issues on this thread
2) In Minnesota, a coach being escorted out of the game by police. And this happened during a 5th grade tournament.

We need to change culture if we ever want this to get better. As officials, I think we need to accept our share of the blame.

Do we "T" up players we see finger wagging?

Do we let coaches howl at us for an entire game, often outside of the coaching box?

Do we not want to call the early handcheck because "it is a cheap foul"

I will guarantee you that if we as officials started enforcing sportsmanship to the letter of the law much of this negative behavior would cease. A couple of ejections coupled with a couple of suspension should send the message that this type of behavior is not acceptable.

Piggybacking on Billy's comments about where you work, I work exclusively rural games. If you put me in the middle of an inner city game, I would be like a fish out of water.

Just worked a few USSSA games this weekend. A quick "knock it off" to players "jostling" for position didn't work. A double fist right after the verbal "warning" did work. I also approached a coach about a player "playing to the crowd" after a made 3. (Also told the kid to knock it off) No more problems after that. In my opinion, the double foul call is a great tool that too often is left unused in the tool box.

[BubbaRef]

My officiating partner actually talked with one of the officials (lets call him Ralph) that did the game because they worked the Finals in Baseball a few years ago together. His take on the game was it was a black/white, rural/city thing from when the ball went up.

The Harrisburg kid that got a T said F'n N----- to the Setan Academy kid. So that warranted that T. Harrisburg coach, after being told what was said, said " I guess that warrants a T" and that was it. Sorry but if I am the coach I take him out and let him ride the pine until the end of the game. Doesnt matter who you are or what type of game it is. IMO

Now for the Setan Academy kid that got kicked out, Ralph, who was the calling official, told my partner there was a little bit of a push from the Setan Academy kid, but since he put both hands on him he said it left him no choice but to give him the second T and eject him.

If you guys thought that Saturday nights game was rough, you should have seen Harrisburg's game Friday night. That, in my opinion was much worse as far as roughness.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BubbaRef

My officiating partner actually talked with one of the officials (lets call him Ralph) that did the game because they worked the Finals in Baseball a few years ago together. His take on the game was it was a black/white, rural/city thing from when the ball went up.

The Harrisburg kid that got a T said F'n N----- to the Setan Academy kid. So that warranted that T. Harrisburg coach, after being told what was said, said " I guess that warrants a T" and that was it. Sorry but if I am the coach I take him out and let him ride the pine until the end of the game. Doesnt matter who you are or what type of game it is. IMO

Now for the Setan Academy kid that got kicked out, Ralph, who was the calling official, told my partner there was a little bit of a push from the Setan Academy kid, but since he put both hands on him he said it left him no choice but to give him the second T and eject him.

If you guys thought that Saturday nights game was rough, you should have seen Harrisburg's game Friday night. That, in my opinion was much worse as far as roughness.

I will say this. If that is remotely true, I would have ejected that kid on the spot.

One more reason that crew was not ready for that kind of game. I hope just for their sake that is not true.

Peace

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by BubbaRef

My officiating partner actually talked with one of the officials (lets call him Ralph) that did the game because they worked the Finals in Baseball a few years ago together. His take on the game was it was a black/white, rural/city thing from when the ball went up.

The Harrisburg kid that got a T said F'n N----- to the Setan Academy kid. So that warranted that T. Harrisburg coach, after being told what was said, said " I guess that warrants a T" and that was it. Sorry but if I am the coach I take him out and let him ride the pine until the end of the game. Doesnt matter who you are or what type of game it is. IMO

Now for the Setan Academy kid that got kicked out, Ralph, who was the calling official, told my partner there was a little bit of a push from the Setan Academy kid, but since he put both hands on him he said it left him no choice but to give him the second T and eject him.

If you guys thought that Saturday nights game was rough, you should have seen Harrisburg's game Friday night. That, in my opinion was much worse as far as roughness.

Ok, I get that putting both hands left him no choice to call the second T. But what did he do to get the first?

[srp6977]

I'm not trying to be the kid's attorney but the video doesn't support saying he was "trash talking and...angrily gesturing and talking to the officials." Obviously I wasn't there so maybe stuff happened off camera but he sure didn't do anything out of the ordinary in front of the bright lights.

The camera doesn't do it justice. I was there mid-court 6 rows up. The kid had a gesture and comment for everything. I saw the f-word fly multiple times from him before he got his first T.

BillyMac nailed it on the head in his earlier post. Couldn't have said it better.