Scheduler is NOT my friend!

[deecee]

Originally Posted by maven

3. Once A takes their last time out, inform the coach that he's out. Sort out the ensuing mess prior to being required to call a TF.

I wouldn't do this. What if the book was wrong now you are on the hook. I don't care to know how many TO's are left and who has how many fouls. I try and keep track of TO's called in my head incase we need to fix the book but it's not our place to remind the coach how many TO's he has.

At the varsity level each team has a scorekeeper and that's their job.

I've had officials tell me that if they know a coach is out of TO's they won't call the TO.....I'll call it in a heartbeat, especially if it's obvious enough.

[whistleone]

Originally Posted by deecee

I wouldn't do this. What if the book was wrong now you are on the hook. I don't care to know how many TO's are left and who has how many fouls. I try and keep track of TO's called in my head incase we need to fix the book but it's not our place to remind the coach how many TO's he has.

At the varsity level each team has a scorekeeper and that's their job.

I've had officials tell me that if they know a coach is out of TO's they won't call the TO.....I'll call it in a heartbeat, especially if it's obvious enough.

NFHS Rule Book: Rule 2-11 Art. 6: Record the time-out information charged to each team (who and when) and notify a team and its coach, through an official, whenever that team is granted its final allotted charged time-out.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by whistleone

NFHS Rule Book: Rule 2-11 Art. 6: Record the time-out information charged to each team (who and when) and notify a team and its coach, through an official, whenever that team is granted its final allotted charged time-out.

And that one time I did and after the game, which was close and the team lost the scorer says, "Hey, I messed up and you had one more."

Who do you think took the brunt of that?

I inform the scorer to let the coach know this info, and I don't care what the book says. BTW the scorer is an official.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by deecee

and I don't care what the book says.

Wow.

[zm1283]

+1 for not telling them how many they have until they are out of timeouts, then make sure to notify them they are out.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by deecee

I inform the scorer to let the coach know this info, and I don't care what the book says.

Really? Another official who wants to make up his own rules, not those made by the NFHS. Wow. No wonder that consistent application of the rules, as written, is a point of emphasis every year.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by deecee

And that one time I did and after the game, which was close and the team lost the scorer says, "Hey, I messed up and you had one more."

Who do you think took the brunt of that?

I inform the scorer to let the coach know this info, and I don't care what the book says. BTW the scorer is an official.

As officials we take the brunt of a lot things, a lot of which we shouldn't but that's how it goes.

In this instance it's easily on the scorer for giving incorrect information. Just as if they notified us of a 7th team foul when it was really 6 or vice versa.

And as you mentioned, at the Varsity level 99.9% of coaches have their own scorer and an assistant tracking timeouts. If they have a discrepancy when we inform they are out of timeouts they should bring it up with the official book then. So your situation was also on the coaching staff for not verifying that their own book matched up with the info from the scorer. It's not on you by any means for simply doing what, by rule, you are suppose to do.

To just say you aren't going to do what the rules say you are to do b/c you had ONE bad experience with it is kind of lame. Particularly when I think it will prevent problems A LOT more than it will cause them.

And for the record, I am someone who absolutely does not tell teams how many timeouts they have left except when they are out and when my partners tell me team A has 2 TOs left and team B has 3, I let them know I do not care to know unless they have zero.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by deecee

And that one time I did and after the game, which was close and the team lost the scorer says, "Hey, I messed up and you had one more."

Who do you think took the brunt of that?

I inform the scorer to let the coach know this info, and I don't care what the book says. BTW the scorer is an official.

If you tell the coach and s/he thinks s/he still has one left, then you can get it straightened out then.

If you tell the coach and s/he doesn't know s/he really has one left, then it's on them, no matter how much they try to drag you under the bus with them.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If you tell the coach and s/he thinks s/he still has one left, then you can get it straightened out then.

If you tell the coach and s/he doesn't know s/he really has one left, then it's on them, no matter how much they try to drag you under the bus with them.

That's a good way to look at it.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Bob-I do the same thing upon a team calling its final timeout.Upon signaling what it is (I always signal what the last one is) I put a closed fist into the air to signify last timeout for whichever team is using it and then notify the reporting official that it was the last timeout.Notification for me is like this "(First Name of reporting official)-final time out for (Insert Color)."

[JetMetFan]

As has been said before, sometimes we're our own worst enemies.

Regarding the OP, ditto on what everyone else has said. The AP problem goes away with communication right when the issue happens after the jump ball. We should always take a second as a crew to talk when something unusual happens. It's the R's responsibility to make sure the arrow is set initially but ultimately it's the entire crew's responsibility.

The time out situation is a game management issue on the part of the crew. It's late in the game and one team calls time out. We have that dead ball period to go to the table and check on the time out situation for both teams. It's a close game. Chances are one or both teams will be close to running out. If one team has none, notify that team as per the rule book. If that team calls time out after that, it's on them.

Originally Posted by deecee

And that one time I did and after the game, which was close and the team lost the scorer says, "Hey, I messed up and you had one more."

Who do you think took the brunt of that?

I inform the scorer to let the coach know this info, and I don't care what the book says. BTW the scorer is an official.

As for this, I'm with everyone else concerning the "I don't care.." line. If I'm your supervisor, I tell you "I don't care how you feel, do what the book says in that spot." Period. If the official scorer tells you Team A has no more time outs, cover yourself by asking again to confirm...then you ask the other team's scorer if that's what they have. If everyone agrees, tell Team A's coach. By rule we don't have to do that but the extra ten seconds won't kill you plus at that point you've done your job. If it's later realized by the table that Team A had one remaining, so be it. If the coach questions me, I tell him/her: "Coach, that's what I was told and I double checked it." They might be upset but they'll live.

Also, how would you "take the brunt" of anything? Was the scorer running around with a bullhorn saying "Team A had another time out!" If he/she messed that up, I get on them, especially if it's an official. I can't assume many things but I should be able to trust that an adult can count to five.

I work 99% of my H.S. games with students at the table so I've grown wary of trusting them outright and if something sounds wrong I'll question it. My partners and I also try to communicate early and often with them. However, they are still going to make mistakes. If we've done our part then the best I can do is tell the coach there was a mistake, we correct it and we move on.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by deecee

BTW the scorer is an official.

Somewhere from out by the bottom of the eastern slope of the mountain range separating Seattle from the rest of the state, I can detect a faint, gratified, "You bet I am!!!"

[Brad]

Originally Posted by deecee

And that one time I did and after the game, which was close and the team lost the scorer says, "Hey, I messed up and you had one more."

Who do you think took the brunt of that?

Well, you shouldn't have if you did ... all you have to say is, "Coach, take it up with the scorer — he had zero time-outs left for you in the book."

How hard is that?

Originally Posted by deecee

I inform the scorer to let the coach know this info, and I don't care what the book says. BTW the scorer is an official.

By rule you must inform them when they have zero remaining. At some point you're going to get burned by not informing the coach when he is out, just like this crew did.

I always informed them when they only have ONE remaining as well. No, the book doesn't say that you have to do that, but it doesn't say you can't. And telling them helps prevents problems!!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

And that one time I did and after the game, which was close and the team lost the scorer says, "Hey, I messed up and you had one more."

Who do you think took the brunt of that?

I inform the scorer to let the coach know this info, and I don't care what the book says. BTW the scorer is an official.

100% WRONG!!!
Your position on this matter is untenable.
Follow the NFHS rule and stop doing it your personal way.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

100% WRONG!!!
Your position on this matter is untenable.
Follow the NFHS rule and stop doing it your personal way.

It's almost as wrong as your bedside manner.