Scheduler is NOT my friend!

[egj13]

So after this weekend...my final in Montana...the scheduler is no longer my friend!

So Friday night I work a VB game at school A...school A is jockying for playoff seeding and school B is #1 in the state. Needless to say school A expected to get routed (so the assistant told me) but as you know that never works out at this point in the season.

On the jump ball it is tipped to my sideline (3-person) and a B player grabs it then steps on the sideline. I give the ball to A and we begin play. The R had the arrow set towards team B because he thought it went out before the player touched it. We get ready to throw the ball in to start the second quarter and A coach says it should be their ball. I confer with the R and he says he set the arrow in the wrong direction because confusion so we switch it. As we turn around our 3rd partner is in a discussion with the B coach about a three that was counted in the official book as a two. So we talk, recall that we did signal a three for B #4 and have the book change it. So of course the A coach goes nuts saying it is outside the correctable error timeframe which I tell him the score can be corrected at any point. Turn back around again and now the B coach wants to know why we changed the arrow. I explain that the player caught it before stepping out, the player and coach say no way...I say coach I'll be honest, it has been about 15 minutes but that is how I recall it happening and that is what we are going with. So after 5 minutes or so we get it all settled.

So we move on, A coach still *****ing about the score change but he's known to be a jerk anyway. Fast forward to 4th quarter, 14 seconds to go, team B up by 4 team A has one TO left. They foul and put team B on the line for 2. I am C, and I see the A coach hollering to his players "bucket, time out, bucket time out". Well my partner at L thinks he is talking to her. Second shot is good and she whistles a TO. She goes to the table, reports and we take a 60 second. A inbounds, goes the length hits a trey and A coach asks for a TO...so I grant, then turn to the table where they inform he doesn't have any. Of course he goes nuts wondering who requested his last TO...partner says "you did coach". We talk and I tell her we have to T him. So we do and the whole place goes nuts and rightfully so. Team B ends up winning by 5 and clearly no one is happy.

Why is the scheduler not my friend? Where do you think I end up the next morning as trainer...school A for a frosh game. Didn't go well...issued two Ts and asked a parent to leave. What a weekend!

[deecee]

This is confusing. He is clearly not asking for a TO and I hate to say it but unless the coach request a TO, I don't take prorated TO requests. I will inform them that I need to see a signal. Then I will issue the TO.

Other than that the T was warranted as these coaches try to play the victim all to often. But all this is avoidable by only calling the TO when it is called.

[egj13]

Originally Posted by deecee

This is confusing. He is clearly not asking for a TO and I hate to say it but unless the coach request a TO, I don't take prorated TO requests. I will inform them that I need to see a signal. Then I will issue the TO.

Other than that the T was warranted as these coaches try to play the victim all to often. But all this is avoidable by only calling the TO when it is called.

That is what we told her in the locker room postgame. I get asked for pre-emptive TOs reguarly but always turn back to them and ask if they still want it. How many times have we had coaches change their mind.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by egj13

That is what we told her in the locker room postgame. I get asked for pre-emptive TOs reguarly but always turn back to them and ask if they still want it. How many times have we had coaches change their mind.

The Old Lead/New Trail should not even be looking for a time-out call during this free throw sequence. There is an official, Old Trail/New Lead, who is standing right there by the coach who can handle any request that may come from the HC.

Originally Posted by deecee

This is confusing. He is clearly not asking for a TO and I hate to say it but unless the coach request a TO, I don't take prorated TO requests. I will inform them that I need to see a signal. Then I will issue the TO.

Originally Posted by egj13

I get asked for pre-emptive TOs reguarly but always turn back to them and ask if they still want it. How many times have we had coaches change their mind.

How prorated or pre-emptive are you talking about? I had a situation where Team A was down 5 points with the ball. I was C, tableside, right in front of Team A's bench. Team A attempted a 3-point try. While it was in midair, Team A coach said to me, "timeout if it goes". Swish, timeout, Team A still lost. Is this something you would do or not?

Another situation in the same game, maybe 10 seconds later. I am still C, still tableside. Team B is attempting a frontcourt throw-in near the division line opposite the table. I am in front of team B's bench. The Trail across the court starts his five-second count, and Team B coach tells me he wants a timeout if they cannot inbound the ball. As the Trail is counting, Team B coach is counting out loud, "one, two three". He got to four and almost asked me for it, but his team got the ball in.

I presume doing these things is ok, but are these the prorated or pre-emptive TO's you gentlemen are talking about? If not, what would an example be?

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

Question-why do some officials ask for players with 3 or 4 fouls on both sides? Seen it a lot this year.

Perhaps to make sure the players were not DQ'd on a cheap foul?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

How prorated or pre-emptive are you talking about? I had a situation where Team A was down 5 points with the ball. I was C, tableside, right in front of Team A's bench. Team A attempted a 3-point try. While it was in midair, Team A coach said to me, "timeout if it goes". Swish, timeout, Team A still lost. Is this something you would do or not?

Another situation in the same game, maybe 10 seconds later. I am still C, still tableside. Team B is attempting a frontcourt throw-in near the division line opposite the table. I am in front of team B's bench. The Trail across the court starts his five-second count, and Team B coach tells me he wants a timeout if they cannot inbound the ball. As the Trail is counting, Team B coach is counting out loud, "one, two three". He got to four and almost asked me for it, but his team got the ball in.

I presume doing these things is ok, but are these the prorated or pre-emptive TO's you gentlemen are talking about? If not, what would an example be?

Perhaps to make sure the players were not DQ'd on a cheap foul?

Ill look at the coach after the make for confirmation and then I will blow my whistle. I am acknowledging the TO on the make but not blowing my whistle without confirmation.

In the second stitch I would have to hear him actually request a TO.

[egj13]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

How prorated or pre-emptive are you talking about? I had a situation where Team A was down 5 points with the ball. I was C, tableside, right in front of Team A's bench. Team A attempted a 3-point try. While it was in midair, Team A coach said to me, "timeout if it goes". Swish, timeout, Team A still lost. Is this something you would do or not?

Another situation in the same game, maybe 10 seconds later. I am still C, still tableside. Team B is attempting a frontcourt throw-in near the division line opposite the table. I am in front of team B's bench. The Trail across the court starts his five-second count, and Team B coach tells me he wants a timeout if they cannot inbound the ball. As the Trail is counting, Team B coach is counting out loud, "one, two three". He got to four and almost asked me for it, but his team got the ball in.

I presume doing these things is ok, but are these the prorated or pre-emptive TO's you gentlemen are talking about? If not, what would an example be?



Perhaps to make sure the players were not DQ'd on a cheap foul?

I would grant the first but not the second without visual confirmation first.

Originally Posted by egj13

I would grant the first but not the second without visual confirmation first.

Me too. The second one was meant to prep me in case his team could not inbound the ball. Like "hey, be aware I am calling timeout if we can't get the ball in". I would certainly not want to be in a situation where my partner calls a 5-second violation on the inbound, and I come over and say "well, the coach wanted a TO before the violation, so no violation". That will never happen, believe me.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

While it was in midair, Team A coach said to me, "timeout if it goes". Swish, timeout, Team A still lost. Is this something you would do or not?

This one is not so bad... Not sure I'd do it exactly that way, but in this particular case, if it DOESN'T go, you can't give him a timeout anyway, so he's really just asking for a timeout if he's allowed to have one.

The Trail across the court starts his five-second count, and Team B coach tells me he wants a timeout if they cannot inbound the ball.

NO WAY. No. Never. His "heads up" to you should, at MOST, make you stay aware of him, with an ear peeled toward him. But what if you were to decide, at 3 1/2 seconds, that "they cannot inbound the ball" - and then he does. This one is fraught with problems if you call one before he says it or signals it.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

NO WAY. No. Never. His "heads up" to you should, at MOST, make you stay aware of him, with an ear peeled toward him. But what if you were to decide, at 3 1/2 seconds, that "they cannot inbound the ball" - and then he does. This one is fraught with problems if you call one before he says it or signals it.

Yep. As I said in both posts, it was a heads-up notice. I mentioned "he was about to call it", but his team got the ball in.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I've had a couple of games this year where someone in the crew came in and said "Hey, we have a time-out before the violation". It was no big deal.

Are you talking about a situation where the officials whistled for the timeout before the 5-second violation whistle? I was talking about a situation where no timeout is granted, until the officials conference and say "well, the coach wanted a TO before the violation, so let's give it to him." Like granting a timeout after the fact. FYI: I would never do this, please do not criticize.

[KevinP]

When granting the TO after the made FT did anyone look towards coach, make eye contact, ask 30 or 60 coach? We've got to be sure that whoever called the TO knows it to avoid a conflict. The Technical was definitely warranted.

[maven]

1. If you make that OOB call, you need to make sure the arrow is set properly. That responsibility is on the entire crew, but you're the only one who knows whether B had possession before the ball went OOB. Might be a good idea in this unusual circumstance to clarify it with the crew, table, and coaches before resuming the game.

2. "Still ****ing" is itself an issue that needs addressing.

3. Once A takes their last time out, inform the coach that he's out. Sort out the ensuing mess prior to being required to call a TF.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by maven

3. Once A takes their last time out, inform the coach that he's out. Sort out the ensuing mess prior to being required to call a TF.

I wouldn't do this. What if the book was wrong now you are on the hook. I don't care to know how many TO's are left and who has how many fouls. I try and keep track of TO's called in my head incase we need to fix the book but it's not our place to remind the coach how many TO's he has.

At the varsity level each team has a scorekeeper and that's their job.

I've had officials tell me that if they know a coach is out of TO's they won't call the TO.....I'll call it in a heartbeat, especially if it's obvious enough.

[whistleone]

Originally Posted by deecee

I wouldn't do this. What if the book was wrong now you are on the hook. I don't care to know how many TO's are left and who has how many fouls. I try and keep track of TO's called in my head incase we need to fix the book but it's not our place to remind the coach how many TO's he has.

At the varsity level each team has a scorekeeper and that's their job.

I've had officials tell me that if they know a coach is out of TO's they won't call the TO.....I'll call it in a heartbeat, especially if it's obvious enough.

NFHS Rule Book: Rule 2-11 Art. 6: Record the time-out information charged to each team (who and when) and notify a team and its coach, through an official, whenever that team is granted its final allotted charged time-out.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by whistleone

NFHS Rule Book: Rule 2-11 Art. 6: Record the time-out information charged to each team (who and when) and notify a team and its coach, through an official, whenever that team is granted its final allotted charged time-out.

And that one time I did and after the game, which was close and the team lost the scorer says, "Hey, I messed up and you had one more."

Who do you think took the brunt of that?

I inform the scorer to let the coach know this info, and I don't care what the book says. BTW the scorer is an official.