The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:53am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 893
Foul calling

I called a foul on Visiting teams start last night in the 2nd Q, It was her 3rd foul. The first I had called on her.

At half time my partner, the R comes to me and tells me that if I have a choice to call the foul on someone around her give it to them because people don't want to see the stars foul out. While I have heard this before, I have always given the foul to the person I see commit the foul.

He later did just what he said he was going to do, clearly the star fouled the girl going to the basket, he gives it to her team mate, it was the team mates 4th foul.
Thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 12, 2013, 08:06am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Orange, NJ
Posts: 2,583
I've heard it as well. The caveat I got was if they both made contact, choose the non-star. It goes hand-in-hand with if we know one kid has 4 fouls and another has 2, give the foul to the kid who has 2 unless you have no choice.

I had the "star" foul situation happen a few years ago in a BV semi-final game. Starting point guard for team A picked up two fouls in the first five minutes. Kid on team B drove to the hoop, the point guard hacked him and I called the foul. As I was going to the table one of my partners said - out loud - "did you have that on 22 or 11?" I said "22!" Then we talked about it during a timeout. I told him I knew what he wanted me to do but there was also no way I could've called the foul on 11 since that kid was a good six feet away from the play. My thought also was it was the star's responsibility not to commit a lazy foul. It also wouldn't have been fair to his teammate.
__________________
"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example."
"If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..."
"Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4."
"The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 12, 2013, 08:10am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 201
Anyone who does this is a crook, and deserves to be called one.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 12, 2013, 08:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 537
I'm not quick or smart or experienced enough to regularly do this. If it's truly a case of two players fouling and making the tiebreaker the non-star, sure, I guess. But anything more than that smacks of manipulation...and once you go down that road, how do you get out of it?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 12, 2013, 08:41am
Tio Tio is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan View Post
I called a foul on Visiting teams start last night in the 2nd Q, It was her 3rd foul. The first I had called on her.

At half time my partner, the R comes to me and tells me that if I have a choice to call the foul on someone around her give it to them because people don't want to see the stars foul out. While I have heard this before, I have always given the foul to the person I see commit the foul.

He later did just what he said he was going to do, clearly the star fouled the girl going to the basket, he gives it to her team mate, it was the team mates 4th foul.
Thoughts?
I am all for trying to keep the best players in the game ---- when possible. But if they are fouling you have to call it. If we don't call it, or call it on another player our credibility as a crew goes way down.

Don't make our job more complicated by adding "philosophies" into the game... our job is to call fouls and violations.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 12, 2013, 08:42am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,839
Maybe the player scores so much b/c every game he's allowed 6-7 fouls while everyone else is done after 5.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 12, 2013, 08:46am
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan View Post
Thoughts?
It stinks too much of game manipulation for my taste. In my view, one of our jobs is to be a good steward for the game and this does not accomplish that goal.
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:04am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan View Post
I called a foul on Visiting teams start last night in the 2nd Q, It was her 3rd foul. The first I had called on her.

At half time my partner, the R comes to me and tells me that if I have a choice to call the foul on someone around her give it to them because people don't want to see the stars foul out. While I have heard this before, I have always given the foul to the person I see commit the foul.

He later did just what he said he was going to do, clearly the star fouled the girl going to the basket, he gives it to her team mate, it was the team mates 4th foul.
Thoughts?
Does he try to keep the fouls even on the scoreboard, too?
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:47am
Medium Kahuna
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: At home
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Does he try to keep the fouls even on the scoreboard, too?
Don't forget a little edge for the home school.
__________________
Never trust an atom: they make up everything.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:48am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan View Post
I called a foul on Visiting teams start last night in the 2nd Q, It was her 3rd foul. The first I had called on her.

At half time my partner, the R comes to me and tells me that if I have a choice to call the foul on someone around her give it to them because people don't want to see the stars foul out. While I have heard this before, I have always given the foul to the person I see commit the foul.

He later did just what he said he was going to do, clearly the star fouled the girl going to the basket, he gives it to her team mate, it was the team mates 4th foul.
Thoughts?
I recently had a conversation with a assoc. member who was working a GV game where the star player for Team A had four fouls. During a timeout, this guy tells his partner to make sure A1(star player) deserves her fifth foul. Two minutes later A1 bumps B1 on a rebound and knocks her down to the ground. The P of the guy I am talking with whistles with a fist in air, thinks for a second and opens his hand and calls a travel. The gym erupts along with Team B's HC!(rightfully so)

Needless to say, the guy is rethinking how he worded the conversation with his P, and I suggested that the conversation doesn't need to happen at all.

My suggestion to him was to apply some preventative officiating before the incident by speaking with A1 and reminding her of her foul trouble and to be smart, but after that we have to call the plays without bias. Thoughts on that?
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,280
I have had a few partners suggest this since I started working basketball, and I hate it. What about the opposing team who might be going at the "star" player and trying to get them to foul? Why punish them in this situation? I think it's dishonest and it hurts our credibility. It's not my job to keep players in the game. I have enough other stuff to worry about before I think about keeping better players in the game.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:02am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes2255 View Post
...
My suggestion to him was to apply some preventative officiating before the incident by speaking with A1 and reminding her of her foul trouble and to be smart, but after that we have to call the plays without bias. Thoughts on that?
Shouldn't that be the coach's job? "Becky, you have 4 fouls, don't do anything stupid on defense or drive recklessly to the basket."
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:14am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,767
2 years ago, I was working a non-conference girls game at a school where we'd worked at least 2 games a season for the last 5 seasons. One of the starters was the AD's daughter and the "star" player was the daughter of an official in the area.

The official's daughter was prone to foul trouble and had four fouls early in the fourth quarter. With the ball up high and me the lead (2-person) opposite the ball, the official's daughter set an illegal screen just off the periphery of my partner, who was on ball. It was a screen that freed a drive and I came and got it. The coach was not happy and neither, apparently, was the AD. The coach wondered why I was looking there (who else is going to get an off ball foul out of the vision of the on-ball official?).

I have not worked a game at that school since. My regular partner continues to get emails for games there and I've been removed from the list.

I'm just a bit annoyed at that mentality and quite a bit more amused. In the end, it doesn't matter since I only have 6 girls games left in my career and that school is well over an hour from where I live. I can live without it.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:30am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes2255 View Post

My suggestion to him was to apply some preventative officiating before the incident by speaking with A1 and reminding her of her foul trouble and to be smart, but after that we have to call the plays without bias. Thoughts on that?
I agree.

I used to coach, for 11 years. I coached my son for 2 years. He was one of the stars but to be honest, we had an all star team. He earned 4 fouls in the 1st Q one game. I had no problem with the calls, they were all good calls. The problem was he fouled the guy over and over...
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:31am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
I'm not a crook, but I will do this in one specific situation.
Team is getting destroyed and the player in question is the only one who can handle the ball. There are other caveats, too, that make the application exceedingly rare.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Calling Fair and Foul nicshow Softball 6 Fri Jun 15, 2012 04:23pm
Whats your steps when calling a foul? CDurham Basketball 23 Wed Jan 13, 2010 08:25pm
Foul after calling TO Amesman Basketball 7 Fri Feb 06, 2009 04:47am
Ever go a long time without calling a foul? Rich Basketball 20 Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:25pm
Calling a foul with 3 seconds left in a blowout bradfordwilkins Basketball 11 Thu Feb 10, 2005 02:50pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:30am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1