Did I bait the coach...?

[BigT]

BJV game this week. Good tight game for the first 2/3rds. Foul count close in the first half and into the 2nd half. Home team starts making shots and visiting team starts attacking the basket but the defense is great and I have several no calls as they force the action and just put up poor shots. Now the visitors are down 10+ and they decide to press to get back into the game. They become dirty and physical and fouls are called and we are now putting the home team on the line for free 1 and 1's. The full court press again and a kid dribbles and turns toward his sideline deep in back court and picks up the ball. The defender pressures him and just starts gently walking into him pushing him to travel or go out of bounds. Easy call and I back off the two run around toward the visitor bench to report the foul.

Coach "Todd, you are a bad ref"

Todd "Coach, did you just call me a bad ref?"

Coach sheepishly "That was a bad call"

Todd "Be honest coach, did you just call me a bad ref"

Coach guilty tone "Yes I did, I know you have to T me up"

I T'd the coach.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[packersowner]

Hard time whacking him after that exchange - I would have probably said something like, "okay, I thought thats what I heard, I know my eyesight is bad, but if my hearing goes, I'm in trouble."

[letemplay]

Was there anyway to "run around" the other way so you won't be that close to coach? Said you were in bonus, so flow should be away from visitor bench going to shoot ft's at home end.

[rockyroad]

I really don't understand the whole "what did you say?" thing...if you heard the coach or player say something that warrants a T, then call the T...the whole making them repeat it and then calling the T just makes us look like jerks and opens the door to criticism that - as the OP title suggest - we baited the coach or player.

[jTheUmp]

Methinks you should've whacked him immediately after the "You're a bad ref" comment.

If you think that's what he said but you aren't 100% sure, give him a quiet "Do you want to repeat that, Coach?". If he repeats himself, then he's definitely earned the T. If he doesn't repeat himself, you've given him a chance to get out of the situation.

Similar to what I do when a player drops an F-bomb in frustration at himself that's quiet enough that nobody else heard it except me. "You said 'truck', right? Because if you said something else I might have to issue a technical foul"

[maven]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I really don't understand the whole "what did you say?" thing...if you heard the coach or player say something that warrants a T, then call the T...the whole making them repeat it and then calling the T just makes us look like jerks and opens the door to criticism that - as the OP title suggest - we baited the coach or player.

Agree.

The specific form of this baiting was that the OP did not let the coach back away from his personal comment. He knew he was over the line, and if you're not going to get the first comment, let him off the hook. Once he's "sheepish," isn't that the objective?

If you really did not hear the comment and feel it must be addressed, go in with something neutral and redirective, such as "Coach, did you have a question about that last call?" or "What did you see, coach?" If he's smart, he'll take advantage of the opportunity to discuss the play rather than you and your performance.

If not, then brew some.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I really don't understand the whole "what did you say?" thing...if you heard the coach or player say something that warrants a T, then call the T...the whole making them repeat it and then calling the T just makes us look like jerks and opens the door to criticism that - as the OP title suggest - we baited the coach or player.

+1

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Methinks you should've whacked him immediately after the "You're a bad ref" comment.

If you think that's what he said but you aren't 100% sure, give him a quiet "Do you want to repeat that, Coach?". If he repeats himself, then he's definitely earned the T. If he doesn't repeat himself, you've given him a chance to get out of the situation.

Similar to what I do when a player drops an F-bomb in frustration at himself that's quiet enough that nobody else heard it except me. "You said 'truck', right? Because if you said something else I might have to issue a technical foul"

Agree with the immediate whack but I don't really like either of the other approaches you suggest. If you hear it you either address it or choose to ignore it. You address it with a T or a warning.

Asking people what they said, to repeat themselves, or manipulating what they said has a lot of downside and very little upside.

You end up in an exchange that can quickly go downhill and then you have to issue a T that's going to look terrible on tape or subject yourself to further unsporting comments on behalf of the coach and swallow your whistle. Sure, sometimes it can work to diffuse a situation but IMO there are much better ways that have much less downside.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BigT

BJV game this week. Good tight game for the first 2/3rds. Foul count close in the first half and into the 2nd half. Home team starts making shots and visiting team starts attacking the basket but the defense is great and I have several no calls as they force the action and just put up poor shots. Now the visitors are down 10+ and they decide to press to get back into the game. They become dirty and physical and fouls are called and we are now putting the home team on the line for free 1 and 1's. The full court press again and a kid dribbles and turns toward his sideline deep in back court and picks up the ball. The defender pressures him and just starts gently walking into him pushing him to travel or go out of bounds. Easy call and I back off the two run around toward the visitor bench to report the foul.

Coach "Todd, you are a bad ref"

Whack.

The rest is unnecessary.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by packersowner

Hard time whacking him after that exchange - I would have probably said something like, "okay, I thought thats what I heard, I know my eyesight is bad, but if my hearing goes, I'm in trouble."

I like that one. I gotta memorize that!!

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

+1



Agree with the immediate whack but I don't really like either of the other approaches you suggest. If you hear it you either address it or choose to ignore it. You address it with a T or a warning.

Asking people what they said, to repeat themselves, or manipulating what they said has a lot of downside and very little upside.

You end up in an exchange that can quickly go downhill and then you have to issue a T that's going to look terrible on tape or subject yourself to further unsporting comments on behalf of the coach and swallow your whistle. Sure, sometimes it can work to diffuse a situation but IMO there are much better ways that have much less downside.

Yep. I'd say there's a place for very limited use of "what was that", but NEVER if it's directed at you. If a coach/player says, not too loudly but loud enough to hear, an expletive or something like WTF, and it's more frustration than personal, then maybe it's ok to give them a chance to walk it back while letting them know they're on the edge of going over the cliff. But if it's "you" or directly personal - no repeat or warning needed.

[JRutledge]

I do not think you baited him, I think you just allowed more conversation to take place that was unneeded. Either address the comment or whack him. You do not need him to repeat anything if you heard the comment clearly.

Peace

[BigT]

Almost like I need to be more aware and when I know the coach makes a personal comment skip the warning and go for the T in this situation. Been working on my personality and better handling issues with Coaches. And it is all very challenging. I enjoy email referees and truly appreciate the insight I gain and the responses I get here from you guys.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rich

whack.

The rest is unnecessary.

+1

[Raymond]

You even admit the coach "sheepishly" responded to your question. I would have left it at that.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think you baited him, I think you just allowed more conversation to take place that was unneeded. Either address the comment or whack him. You do not need him to repeat anything if you heard the comment clearly.

Peace

Just like my T from another thread. I rightfully T'd the coach but I should have done it immediately instead of engaging him in conversation.