Did I bait him?

[RushmoreRef]

Had a game this year and a coach wasn't happy about a call I made in the first half...3-person crew, so I report and go back....Now we're at the other end and I'm right in front of him....He's upset and I explain what I saw....he doesn't like the explanation and he's a stradling the line of the coaches box and I say this in a polite but firm manner.

"Coach that's enough, I need you in your box!"

He makes his way back into his box but then keeps at it and I say...

"Coach I need you to relax"...and he comes back with...

"YOU RELAX!!!"

Whack.....he's good after that for the rest of the game....

Down the road he tells one of my partners at another game that it was the weakest "T" he's ever gotten (He's gotten a lot), and that I instigated it. when I asked/told him to relax (which I'm confident I did in a proper voice tone).

Any comments??? Bad choice of words??? Too many words???

[tjones1]

By saying that's enough and letting him continue you let him run your stop sign. So, probably should have got him there if you really did have enough. As far with "you relax comment," that was was easy. Somewhat clear to me he wanted a T. Also, don't worry about the weakest T comment. If he's got a lot of T's, one of them has to be the "weakest" because he's got so many to compare from. There's probably a really good reason he gets a lot of T's -- they are all deserved.

[David B]

Originally Posted by RushmoreRef

Had a game this year and a coach wasn't happy about a call I made in the first half...3-person crew, so I report and go back....Now we're at the other end and I'm right in front of him....He's upset and I explain what I saw....he doesn't like the explanation and he's a stradling the line of the coaches box and I say this in a polite but firm manner.

"Coach that's enough, I need you in your box!"

He makes his way back into his box but then keeps at it and I say...

"Coach I need you to relax"...and he comes back with...

"YOU RELAX!!!"

Whack.....he's good after that for the rest of the game....

Down the road he tells one of my partners at another game that it was the weakest "T" he's ever gotten (He's gotten a lot), and that I instigated it. when I asked/told him to relax (which I'm confident I did in a proper voice tone).

Any comments??? Bad choice of words??? Too many words???

I would have to say yes to your question. If he's that close to his box, I'm not going to ask him to get in his box.

I'm going to move down/up and keep officiating. If he wants to continue its a simple "that's enough coach."

If he continues then he's earned the T. And he's going to get it!

Thanks
David

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by RushmoreRef

Had a game this year and a coach wasn't happy about a call I made in the first half...3-person crew, so I report and go back....Now we're at the other end and I'm right in front of him....He's upset and I explain what I saw....he doesn't like the explanation and he's a stradling the line of the coaches box and I say this in a polite but firm manner.

"Coach that's enough, I need you in your box!"

He makes his way back into his box but then keeps at it and I say...

"Coach I need you to relax"...and he comes back with...

"YOU RELAX!!!"

Whack.....he's good after that for the rest of the game....

Down the road he tells one of my partners at another game that it was the weakest "T" he's ever gotten (He's gotten a lot), and that I instigated it. when I asked/told him to relax (which I'm confident I did in a proper voice tone).

Any comments??? Bad choice of words??? Too many words???

Ehh...relax is usually construed as a loaded word...I would have avoided it.

As a general rule, I try and limit my words (and especially personal pronouns) as much as possible when dealing with a trouble coach. It's like you're a hostage negotiator...you want to be careful with your words so YOU are always the calm one.

"That's enough" with a level tone and a straight face usually suffices for me. Let HIM lose control...don't ever let yourself. Not saying you did, but your words could be construed as having lots of emotion, and IMO, as an official, you are like a judge...you always want to check your emotions at the door.

[RushmoreRef]

Thanks...I'm in agreement that "Relax" isn't a good word...It gave him a chance to respond....Also agree that he was asking for one and that he wasn't stopping until he got it.....

It usually takes a lot to get one from me so I felt justified in the call, just not how we got there in the first place.

[DC_Ref12]

What about the contrast of a coach who seems like he's patronizing you? My saturday game where I T'd up Coach A, come down to the other end of the court and were shooting FTs, I'm standing near Team B's bench and Coach B is saying things like "You don't have to worry about me, ref. You and me are friends", etc, obviously trying to get on my good side.

Do you tell him to be quiet or just ignore him? I hate being treated like I can be 'bought.'

[sj]

It might have been a time to not make an issue out of the coaches box since he was straddling the line of the box. Telling an angry coach what to do many times only adds fuel to the fire. But if he is out of the box and you want him back in just say, "Coach let's go over here," and then start walking there yourself.

One thought on telling him to relax. Again he's upset and you're demanding that he do something. Another way might be to say something like, "Coach I'll talk to you all day but we're going to have to tone it down." They don't like to hear the word "you " any more than we do. You're not telling him to do anything and he's getting something out of calming down.

If the coach doesn't like your explanation AND you have time at the moment then ask him what he saw. If you know where he's coming from then maybe you can get to the root of the issue quicker.

Maybe even start the conversation by asking him what he saw. I've asked them this right at the beginning a couple of times on travel calls and they had nothing to say. They didn't know why they just thought the play looked funny I guess. If you don't have the time then tell him that we'll have to talk later or that you'll agree to disagree or something like that.

Most of these ideas are for when you have a time out or something.

just some opinions

[Junker]

You didn't bait him. He needed to shut his cake hole and get back in the box. Just because it was a "weak T" to him doesn't mean he deserved it. He's probably just upset he didn't really get to be wound up and get his money's worth.

[JRutledge]

I have learned to let a coach talk themselves out, and then comment. Not saying that did not happen here, but usually I do not respond to rants unless they have a legitimate question. Then once they have talked themselves out, you address their behavior. Also what was taking place before this interaction? You cannot just take this one confrontation and say what you should do only based on this interaction. My question is was this behavior allowed the rest of the game?

Peace

[RushmoreRef]

Earlier in the game he was ok....he's a "talker"...always something from "I think you missed it" to "That's a good call".....

The reason we were talking to begin with is he wanted an explanation on the foul at the other end, it was a "WHAT DID HE DO? kind of request....I gave him one and then he disagreed....I should have mentioned that in the first thread.....I don't know if "I need you in the box" were my exact words, but out association is BIG on using the 14 ft box and no more...we pregames that ahead of time knowing he liked to use all of it plus some.

I like the responses I'm getting on what else I could have done...been doing top two HS level (6 years) and JC and DII NAIA men's for 2 years....dealing with coaches is the hardest part for me...when to talk and when to not....

I also like the idea of letting them tell you what they saw too...BUT does anyone else have a hard time trying to officiate when talking to the coach, I guess I'm not much of a multi-tasker...I'd hate to miss one while coach A is bending my ear and now B will wonder why I missed one at the other end....

[RushmoreRef]

Originally Posted by Junker

You didn't bait him. He needed to shut his cake hole and get back in the box. Just because it was a "weak T" to him doesn't mean he deserved it. He's probably just upset he didn't really get to be wound up and get his money's worth.

he's one that's been known to "freak out", so I did want to avoid at all costs....Only had him twice before but I was the Vet of the crew and wanted to make sure he didn't feel like he was going to have free reign the entire game....as I said, it went fine after that, so I think the point was made, but I'm all for avoiding things if possible...don't know if that was the case here but I think I could have handled it better.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by RushmoreRef

...BUT does anyone else have a hard time trying to officiate when talking to the coach, I guess I'm not much of a multi-tasker...I'd hate to miss one while coach A is bending my ear and now B will wonder why I missed one at the other end....

Don't talk during action. Coach will just have to wait until there is a dead ball.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RushmoreRef

Earlier in the game he was ok....he's a "talker"...always something from "I think you missed it" to "That's a good call".....

The reason we were talking to begin with is he wanted an explanation on the foul at the other end, it was a "WHAT DID HE DO? kind of request....I gave him one and then he disagreed....I should have mentioned that in the first thread.....I don't know if "I need you in the box" were my exact words, but out association is BIG on using the 14 ft box and no more...we pregames that ahead of time knowing he liked to use all of it plus some.

I like the responses I'm getting on what else I could have done...been doing top two HS level (6 years) and JC and DII NAIA men's for 2 years....dealing with coaches is the hardest part for me...when to talk and when to not....

I also like the idea of letting them tell you what they saw too...BUT does anyone else have a hard time trying to officiate when talking to the coach, I guess I'm not much of a multi-tasker...I'd hate to miss one while coach A is bending my ear and now B will wonder why I missed one at the other end....

This is only a question you can answer yourself. I do not have a problem talking to coaches and officiating because I tend to ignore coaches when action is going on. My point on this was mainly did you address other behavior during the course of the game. If you did, then I have no problem with the T. I just think we allow certain behavior to continue all game then T something we should have addressed much earlier. Not to say that always works, but at least the coach knows the line. Then when you stick them, they cannot say you did not give them some warning or understanding of their behavior.

Peace

[RushmoreRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is only a question you can answer yourself. I do not have a problem talking to coaches and officiating because I tend to ignore coaches when action is going on. My point on this was mainly did you address other behavior during the course of the game. If you did, then I have no problem with the T. I just think we allow certain behavior to continue all game then T something we should have addressed much earlier. Not to say that always works, but at least the coach knows the line. Then when you stick them, they cannot say you did not give them some warning or understanding of their behavior.

Peace

I agree that it needs to be addressed when it happens and not fester for much of the game and then happen late when it should have been taken care of early...I think this was early 2nd quarter and the first time he was excited....Again, I'm not concerned that the "T" was warranted or not...it was whether or not it was:

1. avoidable
2. my fault for "leading" him with the "relax" comment....if I had a do-over it I would have gave him a definite stop sign....then if he wants the last word, fine...easy for me..

So far it's the only "T" on the year....and the only one that was even close and I'm 42 dates into a 60 date schedule....We all know what Feb is like though

[rockyroad]

Bottom line - you could have used a better choice of words to try to calm the coach down...but "baiting" him - no way...he chose to act the way he did and blaming it on you and calling it a weak T - well, that's pretty pathetic.