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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:28pm
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[QUOTE=Camron Rust;874560]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post

Actually, bob, it is illegal to have both 0 and 00 listed on the roster whether they play or not. They are considered to be "identical numbers". See 3-2-2e.

This would be an administrative T as the uniforms themselves are legal but the listing in the book with both legal numbers is not legal.

If either of the players wanted to play, one would need to change and there would be no further penalty as the single administrative T would have already been incurred.
See the interp in post #4:
Quote:
after the game starts, there is no infraction if only one of the team members (No. 0 or No. 00) participates
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 26, 2013, 02:29pm
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[QUOTE=Camron Rust;874560]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post

Actually, bob, it is illegal to have both 0 and 00 listed on the roster whether they play or not. They are considered to be "identical numbers". See 3-2-2e.

This would be an administrative T as the uniforms themselves are legal but the listing in the book with both legal numbers is not legal.

If either of the players wanted to play, one would need to change and there would be no further penalty as the single administrative T would have already been incurred.
I would have to disagree that they are considered identical numbers. I believe the intent to not have both on the roster is to eliminate possible confusion when reporting fouls. I would say illegal, yes. Identical, no. If two players have identical numbers, someone has to get a different number. But, both 0 and 00 can both play, at the expense of a T.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:00pm
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Not identical

0 and 00 are no more identical than 1/11, 2/22, 3/33, 4/44, and 5,55. As has been answered, only penalty in the OP is if both team members participate. Why, bc the rule book specifies that 0/00 can't play without a penalty. Nothing to have them both listed.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:37pm
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[QUOTE=PG_Ref;874569]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post

I would have to disagree that they are considered identical numbers. I believe the intent to not have both on the roster is to eliminate possible confusion when reporting fouls. I would say illegal, yes. Identical, no. If two players have identical numbers, someone has to get a different number. But, both 0 and 00 can both play, at the expense of a T.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texref View Post
0 and 00 are no more identical than 1/11, 2/22, 3/33, 4/44, and 5,55. As has been answered, only penalty in the OP is if both team members participate. Why, bc the rule book specifies that 0/00 can't play without a penalty. Nothing to have them both listed.
Yes, they are considered identical...that is the resaon that there is an issue to begin with...maybe a special case of identical, but still identical. Many electronic statistical programs are based on player number and don't/can't separate 0 from 00. 0 and 00 are not like 1 and 11 but are like 1 and 01. Those are identical numbers. If you don't think they are identical, subtract one from the other and see what you get....you don't get the same result with 1 and 11.

I stand corrected in how the NFHS wants them handled, but the basis behind the restriction is that they are identical to record keeping systems.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Sat Jan 26, 2013 at 03:39pm.
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Old Sat Jan 26, 2013, 04:02pm
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Illegal or Identical? That is the question.

Both numbers are legal. They are not identical. In the Ancient Days it was legal to have players wearing both numbers and playing at the same time: "zero" or "double zero". When the first computer programs for basketball statistics were first written, the software could not differentiate between the uniform number "0" and the uniform number "00" therefore the rule change by both the NFHS and NCAA. They are both legal numbers, they are not identical numbers, but a team must just between "0" and "00".

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:17pm
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Identical ??? I Don't Think So ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
(0 and 00) are considered identical.
Try telling that to the croupier at the Venetian Resort and Casino in Las Vegas when you have $1000.00 on 0 and the ball falls into 00 on the roulette wheel.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Both numbers are legal. They are not identical. In the Ancient Days it was legal to have players wearing both numbers and playing at the same time: "zero" or "double zero". When the first computer programs for basketball statistics were first written, the software could not differentiate between the uniform number "0" and the uniform number "00" therefore the rule change by both the NFHS and NCAA. They are both legal numbers, they are not identical numbers, but a team must just between "0" and "00".

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Are 2 and 02 identical? Yes, yes they are. So are 0 and 00. Regardless, you can't have both.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 26, 2013, 07:46pm
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BBR calls 0 violations in the first half.
Adam calls 00 violations in the first half.
BBR and Adam have called the identical number of violations in the first half.

And, we've hide a pretty good first half.
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Old Sat Jan 26, 2013, 09:36pm
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Try telling that to the croupier at the Venetian Resort and Casino in Las Vegas when you have $1000.00 on 0 and the ball falls into 00 on the roulette wheel.


+1,000

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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 26, 2013, 09:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Are 2 and 02 identical? Yes, yes they are. So are 0 and 00. Regardless, you can't have both.

Adam:

My post was not to join the discussion but to give the history behind rule. As far as I am concerned NFHS 2008-09 Basketball Rules Interpretations Situation 2 covers the OP.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. Everybody should remember that there are only ten numerals: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9, but there are an infinite number of numbers.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Adam:


P.S. Everybody should remember that there are only ten numerals: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9, but there are an infinite number of numbers.
Infinite numbers but may ways to express the same number.

1 = 01 = 001 = 0001 = 00001. It doesn't matter how many 0's you add in front if it, it is still the "number" 1.

Now, if you want to talk about strings, they're certainly not the same but players are identified by numbers, not strings.
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