LGP under the basket ?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by egj13

For two experienced Varsity Refs, why are L and C watching the same area. L shouldn't have been "reaching" across the lane to make a call out of his area. If you officiate your PCAs you run less risk of this happening in the first place.

If the contact is a drive from C and contact in the far side of the lane form L, a double whistle is a common occurence -- escpecially if it's a secondary defender -- the L sees the secondary defender, the C keeps following the offensive player.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by egj13

For two experienced Varsity Refs, why are L and C watching the same area. L shouldn't have been "reaching" across the lane to make a call out of his area. If you officiate your PCAs you run less risk of this happening in the first place.

On a baseline drive, I tend to agree.

OP: Was the L ballside? If so, are you saying that the C reached all the way through and called a foul on a collision?

[egj13]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the contact is a drive from C and contact in the far side of the lane form L, a double whistle is a common occurence -- escpecially if it's a secondary defender -- the L sees the secondary defender, the C keeps following the offensive player.

We pre-game this pretty hard in my pool...if I had been L and had the double whistle I would have released to C for them to make the call. We really have very few double whistles from our Ls in our pool though...just something that is harped on really hard.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by egj13

We had this exact discussion at half time of my VB game last weekend. We had a play very similiar...double whistle between L and T, fortunately we had pre-gamed second defender so T never raised her hand to signal. L called it a block. When we got in at half time and were discussing the call and why he went block he said it was because of the depth of the defender. So it was personal preference and I don't see a problem with it. We all agreed that we wish they would put a RA line in for high-school.

Some things are not personal preference.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by egj13

For two experienced Varsity Refs, why are L and C watching the same area. L shouldn't have been "reaching" across the lane to make a call out of his area. If you officiate your PCAs you run less risk of this happening in the first place.

Originally Posted by egj13

We pre-game this pretty hard in my pool...if I had been L and had the double whistle I would have released to C for them to make the call. We really have very few double whistles from our Ls in our pool though...just something that is harped on really hard.

Double whistles aren't necessarily bad things.

[DRJ1960]

Originally Posted by rich

double whistles aren't necessarily bad things.

+1

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the contact is a drive from C and contact in the far side of the lane form L, a double whistle is a common occurence -- escpecially if it's a secondary defender -- the L sees the secondary defender, the C keeps following the offensive player.

And sometimes both just see the backs of the involved players and not the contact...

[tomegun]

Do we have all of the information? I am wondering if they discussed outside official holding (the preliminary) on block/charge plays. I also wonder if anyone mentioned drives from C side being an exception to this philosophy. I think far too many times the L will put air in the whistle on anything drive to the basket when it really shouldn't happen that way.

Like someone else said (putting it my way) the rules are the rules. You can be under the basket and take a charge in high school. It is just that simple. Making a call like this isn't fair to the game and to the other officials who are going to call it properly.

[egj13]

Originally Posted by PG_Ref

Some things are not personal preference.

Most of our officiating is personal prefference...some of us let people play harder in the paint, some let more hand checking than others, some administer 3 seconds differently...

Personal preference on not granting blocks deep under the basket in no different than any of those and as long as you are consistent with your call there is no harm.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by egj13

We all agreed that we wish they would put a RA line in for high-school.

Trust me, you don't.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Rich

Double whistles aren't necessarily bad things.

What do you think about double whistles when the drive starts on C side, either at a 45 degree angle or from the baseline? If I work a college or high school game, we talk about these plays and secondary defenders. A lot of time, the secondary defender surprises the C and the call is made by the seat of the pants. This is a time when I think the L should have the first crack at the play. However - and my previous post didn't get all into this - this is not to say the L is going to have the first crack at every play that goes to the hoop from the C side. For example, if A1 drives from the C side, elevates and it fouled by B2, I still think this isn't a double whistle situation. The L may have a cadence whistle, but it should be on something that is obvious that the C doesn't call. IMO, this applies to plays that start, develop and finish in the C's primary. If a play goes right down the middle of the lane, or close, it is different.

Last night we had a few double whistles in my game. I work with the official I had double whistles with a lot and they must have been good double whistles. I say this because he is my friend, I know him and if we have a double whistle that is clearly in my PCA (a call that is absolutely mine to make) I'm not even looking at him as I move to report.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tomegun

What do you think about double whistles when the drive starts on C side, either at a 45 degree angle or from the baseline? If I work a college or high school game, we talk about these plays and secondary defenders. A lot of time, the secondary defender surprises the C and the call is made by the seat of the pants. This is a time when I think the L should have the first crack at the play. However - and my previous post didn't get all into this - this is not to say the L is going to have the first crack at every play that goes to the hoop from the C side. For example, if A1 drives from the C side, elevates and it fouled by B2, I still think this isn't a double whistle situation. The L may have a cadence whistle, but it should be on something that is obvious that the C doesn't call. IMO, this applies to plays that start, develop and finish in the C's primary. If a play goes right down the middle of the lane, or close, it is different.

Last night we had a few double whistles in my game. I work with the official I had double whistles with a lot and they must have been good double whistles. I say this because he is my friend, I know him and if we have a double whistle that is clearly in my PCA (a call that is absolutely mine to make) I'm not even looking at him as I move to report.

Without addressing your points in detail, I agree with everything you've said.

Sometimes a play can "blow up" when a defender seems to appear out of nowhere when another official can tell you exactly what that defender did the entire time -- why wouldn't we pass primary responsibility on the call to the official who saw everything the defender did?

[Zoochy]

I worked a 2-man game last night. Had the same play. I am lead and Trail is just inside the mid-court line. As the Lead, I am moving across the lane area to watch the baseline drive better. The only thing different in this play is the defender desides to turn away (like she is boxing out). Double whistle. Since we pregame double whistle. Play is coming to me, thus I take the call. I call charge.
After the game he disagrees with me stating that the player does not have legal guarding position because her back is now towards the player with the ball. I say defender did nothing wrong and player with the ball runs over the defender. Then he barks something about the restricted area. We agree to disagree.
Oh well.....

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Then he barks something about the restricted area.

Did you ask why he brought up something that has nothing to do with NFHS rules or had you tuned him out by then?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by egj13

Most of our officiating is personal prefference...some of us let people play harder in the paint, some let more hand checking than others, some administer 3 seconds differently...

Personal preference on not granting blocks deep under the basket in no different than any of those and as long as you are consistent with your call there is no harm.

Yes, it is. How can it be OK when one official calls the exact same play one way (due to "personal preference") and another calls it completely differently?

Besides -- it's completely unsupported by rule -- how does he explain this to a coach who asks the question, "Why was that a block?"