LGP under the basket ?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by APG

This is hard to believe that experienced varsity officials would screw this up. There is no restricted area under NFHS rules. As such, a player can obtain legal guarding position ANYWHERE on the court.

I know more than a few officials who will refuse to call a blockcharge under the basket in HS and have held that view since long before the NBA or NCAA added their RA's. They like their way better and just will not call it by HS rules.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I know more than a few officials who will refuse to call a block under the basket in HS and have held that view since long before the NBA or NCAA added their RA's. They like their way better and just will not call it by HS rules.

Is this suppose to be the other way around?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by APG

Is this suppose to be the other way around?

Yep...fixed it.

[egj13]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I know more than a few officials who will refuse to call a block under the basket in HS and have held that view since long before the NBA or NCAA added their RA's.

We had this exact discussion at half time of my VB game last weekend. We had a play very similiar...double whistle between L and T, fortunately we had pre-gamed second defender so T never raised her hand to signal. L called it a block. When we got in at half time and were discussing the call and why he went block he said it was because of the depth of the defender. So it was personal preference and I don't see a problem with it. We all agreed that we wish they would put a RA line in for high-school.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by egj13

he went block he said it was because of the depth of the defender. So it was personal preference and I don't see a problem with it.

Why do you not have a problem with it?

A defender can defend *anywhere* on the court under NFHS rules.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by egj13

We had this exact discussion at half time of my VB game last weekend. We had a play very similiar...double whistle between L and T, fortunately we had pre-gamed second defender so T never raised her hand to signal. L called it a block. When we got in at half time and were discussing the call and why he went block he said it was because of the depth of the defender. So it was personal preference and I don't see a problem with it. We all agreed that we wish they would put a RA line in for high-school.

Some things are not personal preference.

[tomegun]

Do we have all of the information? I am wondering if they discussed outside official holding (the preliminary) on block/charge plays. I also wonder if anyone mentioned drives from C side being an exception to this philosophy. I think far too many times the L will put air in the whistle on anything drive to the basket when it really shouldn't happen that way.

Like someone else said (putting it my way) the rules are the rules. You can be under the basket and take a charge in high school. It is just that simple. Making a call like this isn't fair to the game and to the other officials who are going to call it properly.

[egj13]

Originally Posted by PG_Ref

Some things are not personal preference.

Most of our officiating is personal prefference...some of us let people play harder in the paint, some let more hand checking than others, some administer 3 seconds differently...

Personal preference on not granting blocks deep under the basket in no different than any of those and as long as you are consistent with your call there is no harm.

[Zoochy]

I worked a 2-man game last night. Had the same play. I am lead and Trail is just inside the mid-court line. As the Lead, I am moving across the lane area to watch the baseline drive better. The only thing different in this play is the defender desides to turn away (like she is boxing out). Double whistle. Since we pregame double whistle. Play is coming to me, thus I take the call. I call charge.
After the game he disagrees with me stating that the player does not have legal guarding position because her back is now towards the player with the ball. I say defender did nothing wrong and player with the ball runs over the defender. Then he barks something about the restricted area. We agree to disagree.
Oh well.....

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Then he barks something about the restricted area.

Did you ask why he brought up something that has nothing to do with NFHS rules or had you tuned him out by then?

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Did you ask why he brought up something that has nothing to do with NFHS rules or had you tuned him out by then?

I tuned him out waaaaaaaaaaaaay before the game ended.
I have to work with him again next month. Geez

[Rich]

Originally Posted by egj13

Most of our officiating is personal prefference...some of us let people play harder in the paint, some let more hand checking than others, some administer 3 seconds differently...

Personal preference on not granting blocks deep under the basket in no different than any of those and as long as you are consistent with your call there is no harm.

Yes, it is. How can it be OK when one official calls the exact same play one way (due to "personal preference") and another calls it completely differently?

Besides -- it's completely unsupported by rule -- how does he explain this to a coach who asks the question, "Why was that a block?"

[egj13]

Originally Posted by Rich

Yes, it is. How can it be OK when one official calls the exact same play one way (due to "personal preference") and another calls it completely differently?

Besides -- it's completely unsupported by rule -- how does he explain this to a coach who asks the question, "Why was that a block?"

Every time a defender places a hand on a ball handler it is a hand check...how do answer the coach when he asks you why you didn't call the check? You might let a defender body a kid in the low post and I might call it a push...how do you answer the coach when he asks why it wasn't a push? We all have parts of the game that we call to our own personal preference. I don't call blocks deep in the paint, when a coach asks me why it wasn't a block I tell him I didn't see it as a block...pretty easy stuff here.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by egj13

Every time a defender places a hand on a ball handler it is a hand check...how do answer the coach when he asks you why you didn't call the check? You might let a defender body a kid in the low post and I might call it a push...how do you answer the coach when he asks why it wasn't a push? We all have parts of the game that we call to our own personal preference. I don't call blocks deep in the paint, when a coach asks me why it wasn't a block I tell him I didn't see it as a block...pretty easy stuff here.

Because you're basing it on philosophy rather than rule. Deciding on a handcheck or push is not the same thing as adding your personal philosophy to the rule.

And no, placing a hand on a dribbler is not an automatic hand check according to the rule.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by egj13

Every time a defender places a hand on a ball handler it is a hand check...how do answer the coach when he asks you why you didn't call the check? You might let a defender body a kid in the low post and I might call it a push...how do you answer the coach when he asks why it wasn't a push? We all have parts of the game that we call to our own personal preference. I don't call blocks deep in the paint, when a coach asks me why it wasn't a block I tell him I didn't see it as a block...pretty easy stuff here.

We're talking about people calling blocks instead of charges simply because it was too far under the basket.

What do you tell the coach when he asks why it was a block instead of a charge?

1. He was too far under the basket? If so, you just told him you're making up your own rules and you incorrectly penalized the defender.

2. Something else? Given the reason you've already expressed as to why you don't call those charges, you just lied. There goes your integrity.