The 3-person battle continues

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I don't think anyone is advocating it...but like tome gun said, there are dead spots in two man coverage and coaches take advantage of that knowledge.

There are dead spots in the paint when large numbers of bodies are packed in there at times, so let's go nuts when that happens, guys.

I find the whole concept dirty.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

There are dead spots in the paint when large numbers of bodies are packed in there at times, so let's go nuts when that happens, guys.

I find the whole concept dirty.

And far be it from a coach or player to do anything dirty.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And far be it from a coach or player to do anything dirty.

Right. We should get this line published somewhere.

[bowlingref]

We get $ 5.00 extra for working a varsity girls game with two people. Two private schools are the only ones that do this. One of the coaches got on me about a non call the other night and my reply was, tell your A/D that is what he gets for not coming off the extra $$$$$ to have 3 refs on the floor.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bowlingref

We get $ 5.00 extra for working a varsity girls game with two people. Two private schools are the only ones that do this. One of the coaches got on me about a non call the other night and my reply was, tell your A/D that is what he gets for not coming off the extra $$$$$ to have 3 refs on the floor.

Objection.......argumentative

I wouldn't get into the habit of saying this to a coach.

jmo

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I don't think anyone is advocating it...but like tome gun said, there are dead spots in two man coverage and coaches take advantage of that knowledge.

It's not only specific spots, it's general coverage.

If all fouls were seen with 3 officials, then maybe only 2/3 of the fouls are seen with 2 officials. So, "play more agressive" and you'll be able to commit 7 fouls before you get called for 5.

(The math and logic isn't quite right, of course, but the general concept is.0

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It's not only specific spots, it's general coverage.

If all fouls were seen with 3 officials, then maybe only 2/3 of the fouls are seen with 2 officials. So, "play more agressive" and you'll be able to commit 7 fouls before you get called for 5.

(The math and logic isn't quite right, of course, but the general concept is.0

Easy now Bob...you are just being dirty now.

[just another ref]

For the coaches benefit, (can't believe I said that) putting any faith in a blanket concept such as this one has large potential to break your heart. Depending on a variety of factors, this 2 man crew, may call more/tighter and yes, possibly even a better game overall than that 3 man crew.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by just another ref

For the coaches benefit, (can't believe I said that) putting any faith in a blanket concept such as this one has large potential to break your heart. Depending on a variety of factors, this 2 man crew, may call more/tighter and yes, possibly even a better game overall than that 3 man crew.

Of course.

And then the coaches and players adjust.

[packersowner]

Originally Posted by egj13

We do all our Varsity games here in MT with 3-man. In some of the tiny gyms it is almost too many people out there but we do it anyway.

Last year I was doing a JV game in 2-man. The H coach was asking me to watch off ball screens so I said "I'll watch what I can and that is why we have 3 refs at the varsity level to catch that stuff easier". He looks at me and says "all having 3 refs does is make you all lazy. You had 2 refs for all those years and were just fine, now you all are lazy" I swear...

Well the game was much simpler when Custer County beat Missoula, 11-6, circa 1923.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

There was a study done by one of the eastern states ( one of the Carolinas I think) that showed that the first year of three person crews, the number of fouls called on average per game went up. In years 2 and 3, the average went down. They attributed it to two things: 1) the coaches and players cleaned it up knowing they could not get away with stuff away from the ball; and 2) the number of " marginal" calls - ones where we didnt have a good luck at the play but called something based on a partial look - went way, way down. The number of calls considered correct went way up.

I don't think it was us. We've been using 3 man for all varsity games for over 20 years. It's mandated by the NCHSAA.

Our local also works 3 man for all JV games in the one 3A and two 4A conferences that we work. How else can you prepare officials to work varsity?

[packersowner]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Our local also works 3 man for all JV games

+1

These are some the hardest games to work with two.

[JetMetFan]

I had a public school AD tell me a couple of weeks ago he's going to push for 3-person crews. NYC only does 3-person in the regular season for AA Varsity in Catholic and Private schools, not public (AA is the highest level of ball in NYC/NYS) and his school is AA public. He said he can't see how we call that level of ball with only two people.

My BV assigner suggested to us a few years ago that we should go 3-person in exchange for a cut in pay to help schools deal with the cost. We're at $105 for 2-person. He said we should go $75 for 3-person, meaning it would only cost the schools $15 for the third, the fees would eventually go back up and more people would get Varsity work. Overwhelming majority of officials said no way. I thought - and still think - the folks who said no were nuts.

NYC publics go 3-person starting with the city QF at all levels (AA, A & B). A few years ago NYS actually went back to 2-person crews for the state semis and finals. The organizers said they were having trouble finding enough officials who understood how to work 3-person so they went back to two. It's back to three again.

[bowlingref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Objection.......argumentative

I wouldn't get into the habit of saying this to a coach.

jmo

I am friends with the A/D at that school and he refs with us some. I would not say that to just any coach. If the A/D rides with me to a game, we ususally have a chat about the $$$ he is savign by using two man crews.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Which Irvin brother was causing the problems in that game?

Peace

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I had to deal with one of their assistants one time. He looked shocked that I called him out and spoke in such an authoritative/combative tone.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Perspective is not that program's best suit. And the fact that many of the people involved coach programs at the high school level coaching and some situations in some recent incidents, their reputation certainly is well known. That is all I will say.

Peace

So, did I just read about a suspension that is applicable to this conversation?