The 3-person battle continues

[Rich]

Southeastern Wisconsin's three-person system featured in Referee Magazine

Can't believe in this day and age that many conferences still refuse to go to 3-person. Matter of fact, an assignor for about 30 schools has told me that a majority of his coaches have no desire to go to 3-person officiating, so that's pretty much the end of that.

It's frustrating having to work both systems. With all honesty, if I could build a schedule with 30-35 3-person games, I wouldn't ever work another 2-person game. But the 3-person games in my area are too few and far between to ever consider that.

Just a Tuesday morning vent before going to work a 2-person boys game with two schools with enrollments in excess of 1000.

[rockyroad]

There really is no valid reason for these schools to continue fighting against going three-person...all of the studies done (NBA, NCAA, various State Associations) have shown that three-person crews cut down on the rough play and clean the game up, making it more fun for the fans to watch. The reason thrown around the most often is cost, but even that does not fly as states that have gone to 3-person crews have shown that the cost increases are just not as severe as these people claim.

As for the coaches being against it...they just don't want to have their star players picking up fouls that the third set of eyes would be catching. It means they would have to teach proper defense, proper screens, etc., etc...again, a stupid and selfish reason.

My Tuesday morning rant with Rich.

[Treeguy]

We had a local league that went from 3 to 2 for a year or two to try and save money. They went back to 3 man this year. There was talk of keeping the girls to a 2 man, but there might have been Title IX implications.

[Smitty]

I dislike going back and forth as well. Here you go 2-man or 3-man depending on the size of the schools. The pay is the same for a varsity game, whether you work 2 or 3 man. Sometimes we work 2-man for the JV then add a third for the Varsity. That is a fun adjustment.

[OKREF]

We have 7 classes here. B, A-6A. Only 5A, and 6A have 3 man crews, and they are required to have that by our state association. The coaches at the lower levels say they don't like 3 man, because they think stuff gets missed. They really wouldn't know since they have never had a 3 man crew. I officiate both and any sensible person will say 3 man is so much better.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by OKREF

The coaches at the lower levels say they don't like 3 man, because they think stuff gets missed.

Statements like that make me glad I'm not in OK now - Do they have clue what they're talking about at all?!.

Originally Posted by OKREF

I officiate both and any sensible person will say 3 man is so much better.

But you are referring to coaches here, so...

[rockyroad]

There was a study done by one of the eastern states ( one of the Carolinas I think) that showed that the first year of three person crews, the number of fouls called on average per game went up. In years 2 and 3, the average went down. They attributed it to two things: 1) the coaches and players cleaned it up knowing they could not get away with stuff away from the ball; and 2) the number of " marginal" calls - ones where we didnt have a good luck at the play but called something based on a partial look - went way, way down. The number of calls considered correct went way up.

[shavano]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I dislike going back and forth as well. Here you go 2-man or 3-man depending on the size of the schools. The pay is the same for a varsity game, whether you work 2 or 3 man. Sometimes we work 2-man for the JV then add a third for the Varsity. That is a fun adjustment.

We're a bit different in CO. There's slightly higher pay for 2 man vs 3 ( for both V and JV/lower levels), but a lot of the schools ( even some of the larger ones in the cities) are either staying with doing 2 man for all levels, or doing like Smitty mentioned and going to a 3 man system for V games only. Definitely a fun adjustment.

[egj13]

We do all our Varsity games here in MT with 3-man. In some of the tiny gyms it is almost too many people out there but we do it anyway.

Last year I was doing a JV game in 2-man. The H coach was asking me to watch off ball screens so I said "I'll watch what I can and that is why we have 3 refs at the varsity level to catch that stuff easier". He looks at me and says "all having 3 refs does is make you all lazy. You had 2 refs for all those years and were just fine, now you all are lazy" I swear...

[SCalScoreKeeper]

everything here is done in two man until the quarterfinals of the section playoffs.there are certain tournaments that are done in three man but not very many.

[Pantherdreams]

Went to watch a friend coach at a tournament over the summer. Very high clalibre basketball. For some reason games in 1 gym we two man games in a another were 3 man. We went and watched a shoot around where the HC asked their assistant if they were playing the next opponent in a 3man game or two man. As soon as they found out 2 man they implemented/ went to a package they had where all screens were being set in dead zones/ difficult zones that they never even looked at running in the 3 man game.

Coaches . . .

I can get the cost thing for smallers schools (MS/ High School) in rurla areas that have to ship in crews but overall its just a better game with 3.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

.... the HC asked their assistant if they were playing the next opponent in a 3man game or two man. As soon as they found out 2 man they implemented/ went to a package they had where all screens were being set in dead zones/ difficult zones that they never even looked at running in the 3 man game.

This is really a stretch.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This is really a stretch.

Why?

I coached summer league stuff for my sons when they were playing in HS, and we had specific screens we set in specific area when we had two person crews. Not hard to do at all.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

... As soon as they found out 2 man they implemented/ went to a package they had where all screens were being set in dead zones/ difficult zones that they never even looked at running in the 3 man game.
.....

This is the most difficult part of 2-man for me. I hate that we miss those illegal screens. Doing a 2-man game tonight where the host sets a lot of questionable screens. This school sometimes uses 3-man. Tonight, if I think it might be illegal, I'm putting a whistle on it. Coach can fuss all he wants (which wouldn't be anything new).

[Freddy]

We used to have one conference assigning 3-man for F/JV DH's, which was an excellent learning ground for many who are now doing 3-man for varsity in our area (V is all 3-man/woman/person/human). The superintendents axed it against the advice of their AD's. Now, unless a guy gets what he needs from summer camps or from the various off-season scrimmages, he ain't never gonna get to the V level.
There are two prominent, large-school conferences who also cut back to 2-man for F/JV DH's, but several of us always bring in a third--splitting the two checks three ways. Though this sets a bad precedent, giving the schools something they don't pay for, we're hoping they are able to contrast the outcome of the 2-man games with those done by the freebie 3-man crews.
We don't give 'em chronic ballwatchers, only good, young, up-and-coming officials already doing varsity 3-man.
Time will tell if our sales pitch pays off.
The Referee mag article states the case quite well. Should be sent to all AD's and their budgetary-conscious supers.